shokwave comments on The Santa deception: how did it affect you? - Less Wrong

21 Post author: Desrtopa 20 December 2010 10:27PM

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Comment author: shokwave 21 December 2010 12:17:36PM 2 points [-]

Is the act of the parents - that of going along with cultural norms of faux-deceit - still evil if it actually makes their children better able to succeed socially? Where does the 'evil' lie?

Yes. Other-optimising and deliberately changing someone's map so that it doesn't reflect the territory are hard to make a case for. "Cultural norms" is not such a case. I am not convinced there are people who actually learn how to play better when they don't know the rules of the game.

Comment author: wedrifid 21 December 2010 01:01:44PM *  2 points [-]

I am not convinced there are people who actually learn how to play better when they don't know the rules of the game.

Assuming your position holds given the language I used as well as with your framing then we have an unambiguous disagreement in matter of fact. If you see things the way they actually are you have to lie. People are just not that good at double talk. I will not begrudge those who work best at navigating a world of bullshit by immersing themselves in it the opportunity to play to their strengths.

Comment author: shokwave 21 December 2010 02:04:15PM 3 points [-]

I am pretty sure we do disagree. Just to be sure, I don't hold that nobody can learn how to function well in society without the rules being made explicit; but that everyone would do better when given the rules to interpret the experience as a game.

Comment author: wedrifid 21 December 2010 02:36:21PM 3 points [-]

I am pretty sure we do disagree.

We do. Ironically I consider your position just one more ideal that can be helpful to believe for game purposes despite being inaccurate.