wedrifid comments on The Santa deception: how did it affect you? - Less Wrong
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My comments, this one and the one below, explain why it took me so long to respond and why my first few drafts didn't work. I'm sorry for the bloggy/confessional tone. Things were less sorted out than I thought.
I think that whatever you do, you teach your children a culture; including your attitudes about information, edges of information and independent thinking. This happens on a daily basis, with everything you do, so I don't think it matters so much what you tell them at the object level. In other words, you can tell them what you think about things and trust that they will keep thinking about it on their own terms (and not be brainwashed) if not being brainwashed is something that you value.
Religion wasn't much of an issue until my daughter was about 5 or so. It just didn't come up. My social experience with religion is that most people are religious and some people are not-so, and no one really cares except for the occasional religious aunt that everyone teases for being a fanatic because she gets all worked up at gatherings with the cynicism of the undeclared atheists.
With children in the family, this changes somewhat. I think this is because children are socialized by the whole community, not just the parents. You can strive for independence, but it's kind of difficult to avoid completely (e.g., playground rules) and I think it can be very comforting to have the help. (Especially from other parents that may be more experienced, insightful or patient than you are feeling at the moment.)
All this to explain that my daughter spends a lot of time with her cousins. Since they are being socialized to be good little believers, they try to socialize my daughter with these new rules they are learning. (It is somewhat competitive, to see if my daughter is learning these Very Important Things. My daughter just has to take the status hit of not having known these things, but she is younger so it just one instance of many.)
Regarding these Very Important Things, I can't tell my daughter that they're Not So Very Important, because she will report this back to the cousin and I will have undermined her mother's authority and defaulted on the support network. What I do instead is confirm, 'Yes, it's true. That is important to your cousin and her family.' Since that's not how I usually talk about right and wrong, my daughter is beginning to learn about different tones and language that I use when we're discussing other people's rules. (She's seen it before. I let the kids climb up the slide the wrong way until a parent tells their kid not to, and then I make my kids stop too.)
Things would be much easier again if she was going to a secular school, but we agreed that the advantages of the better teaching, safety and a pro-education culture outweigh the disadvantages of not being secular. So the weekly religion class is a challenge that I suppose will only grow from here on in as they discuss things that are not corroborated at home. I suspect this bothers her, because a couple weeks ago she asked about angels in a tone of voice that sounded like 'why is the teacher talking about angels anyway?"
I see this as a warning sign, because a kid spends lots of time at school and lots of time at home and should feel comfortable in both places. I think undermining the teacher's authority here would be a mistake (something OK when she is 12, but not at 5). It makes me reconsider my decision to put her in this school, but then I think of the alternatives until my resolve returns. I asked her what she has learned about angels (I had no idea what they're telling the kids about angels) and then told her to ask her teacher about some of the questions we had thought of together. With this, I felt pretty good that I had not undermined the teacher (I had communicated that the teacher was worth listening to and learning more from) and had distanced myself from the belief by not knowing the things anyone probably ought to know about angels. I hope I planted a seed that questions should be investigated, and it's OK to ask people what they think in more detail.
I had been feeling pretty good about my progress on avoiding social religious conflict without compromising honesty but then recently I've gotten in over my head with this and I'm feeling somewhat conflicted. I'll post about that in a separate comment.
How does it go again? "Yes, it's true. Not undermining the teacher's authority and credibility, independent of the actual quality of their teaching is Very Important to you."
I think you are quite possibly making a good decision. I guess it depends what path you want your children to develop along, the degree of insanity to which they are exposed and the nature of their innate psychological makeup.
My husband and I are very much of the opinion that getting along in society and modern civilization is a game. And then there are things we care about, too.
Regarding the quality of the teaching, there's a few things I would criticize about the quality of the teaching before her belief in angels! Given that this particular teacher and this particular school represent an optimal location in our set of possibilities, undermining the teacher's authority would most likely lead to behavior I don't want, like distrust and hostility. The teacher needs an environment with which to teach empathy, letters and shapes at this age. The religious training seems like a small thing?
Unless, of course, the children learned to differentiate 'respect' of the social kind (the only important part for social success at school) from respect of the kind where actual merit is relevant. This is an invaluable lesson in its own right. (By my observation the social necessity of showing respect to an authority figure may actually have an inverse correlation with their merit - unless you actually wish to challenge them.)
Again, this isn't a criticism of your decision, which I think is a practical one. Just a consideration some need to account for depending on psychological makeup of their children.
Utterly trivial. Makes almost no difference. :)
This is actually a case where The Santa Deception may actually be a good thing. One approach I may consider would be to teach my kids the necessary religion myself, actively. I'd tell them all the right religious stories, and intersperse those stories with fairy tales and stories of Santa. All in the same tone and cheery enthusiasm.
I can still ace the religious questions when I go along to trivia nights at church with my Christian friends. There is no reason my kids can't too. :)
Up-voted for this:
Sometimes I get into trouble with this, and have to explain to somebody whom I respect that I didn't show them as much respect as I showed another because I actually respect them more (and probably actually respected them too much, but I don't say that). Mostly this is not authority figures, however.
It seems easier to repair religious damage than social damage, but I am not an expert in child development.