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shokwave comments on The Santa deception: how did it affect you? - Less Wrong
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Right; I agree with you. Theism, in and of itself, doesn't get you anywhere. It does, however, help enable the rest of organized religion. It's hard to take church or whatever too seriously if you're a confirmed atheist. Organized religion, in my opinion, does have many useful and powerful resources for building character. I doubt that getting access to these resources is worth the irrationality, though, so I'm looking for substitute character-building resources.
Other commenters have suggested teaching people about tit-for-tat, collective action problems, etc., but I'm not convinced that game theoretic education can take the place of character education -- you can understand quite clearly how the world would be better off if everyone cooperated, and nevertheless feel that your best individual course of action is to defect around the edges and try to hide it.
Why would you expect church to be good character education compared to, say, television, which preaches a much more modern and sophisticated morality. I suggest Nip/Tuck, or for the young, Kimba: The White Lion and maybe the Ewoks Droids Adventure Hour.
If you want a religion though, there are surely factually accurate forms of atheistic Buddhism.
Well, if your church is just preaching at you, then I suppose it would be strictly dominated by good television shows. The churches I bother attending also involve studying, reflection, social activism, community service, mutual support, ritual, indoctrination, etc. It's a much more participatory experience, and so it's much more effective than watching television at changing your character.
As for whether the state that it's changing your character to is desirable, well, that's a matter of finding the right church. There are a few out there, and, more to the point (if you scroll up a few comments) I would like to identify a better, secular character-change institution. Watching TV wasn't quite what I had in mind.
I don't want a religion; I want a character-building institution. Currently, my known list of sources for that is {Religion.} I would love your help expanding the set.
TV really isn't so bad. I honestly find it difficult to entertain the possibility that the 90th percentile church is better than the 90th percentile TV show. I'm sure that there are 99th percentile churches, but I'd expect them to be much more like a good dojo, gym, skateboarding/surfing group, band, community theater or the like. The general purpose word for this sort of thing is civil society. Decent colleges are hotbeds of it.
I guess I'd suggest looking for a really good gym. Or in a major city, the local Less Wrong group.