Emile comments on Solve Psy-Kosh's non-anthropic problem - Less Wrong

34 Post author: cousin_it 20 December 2010 09:24PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (99)

You are viewing a single comment's thread.

Comment author: Emile 21 December 2010 09:51:16AM *  6 points [-]

I tell you that you're a decider [... so] the coin is 90% likely to have come up tails.

Yes, but

So saying "yea" gives 0.9 * 1000 + 0.1 * 100 = 910 expected donation.

... is wrong: you only get 1000 if everybody else chose "yea". The calculation of expected utility when tails come up has to be more complex than that.

Let's take a detour through a simpler coordination problem: There are 10 deciders with no means of communication. I announce I will give $1000 to a Good and Worth Charity for each decider that chose "yea", except if they all chose yea, in which case I will give nothing. Here the optimal strategy is to choose "yea" with a certain probability p, which I don't have time to calculate right now.

But anyway, in coordination problems in general, the strategy is to find what the group strategy should be, and execute that. Calculation of expected utility should not be done on the individual level (because there's no reliable way to account for the decisions of others if they depend on yours), but on the group level.

Comment author: wnoise 21 December 2010 10:15:20AM *  10 points [-]

Here the optimal strategy is to choose "yea" with a certain probability p, which I don't have time to calculate right now

The expected value is $1000 (10 * p - 10 p^ 10). Maximums and minimums of functions may occur when the derivative is zero, or at boundaries.

The derivative is $1000(10 - 100 p^ 9). This is zero when p = 0.1^(1/9) ~= 0.774. The boundaries of 0 and 1 are minima, and this is a maximum.

EDIT: Huh. This simple calculation that mildly adds to the parent is worth more karma than the parent? I thought the parent really got to the heart of things with: "(because there's no reliable way to account for the decisions of others if they depend on yours)" Of course, TDT and UDT are attempts to do just that in some circumstances.

Comment author: James_Ernest 21 July 2013 01:48:25AM 2 points [-]

Shouldn't the expected value be $1000 (10p)*(1-p^10) or $1000 (10p - 10p^11) ? (p now maximised at 0.7868... giving EV $7.15K)

Comment author: wnoise 24 July 2013 04:19:48AM 0 points [-]

That does look right.

Comment author: christopherj 04 April 2014 04:42:01PM *  0 points [-]

Seems to me that you'd want to add up the probabilities of each of the 10 outcomes, 0*p^10*(10!/(10!*0!)) + 9000*p^9*(1-p)*(10!/(9!*1!)) + 8000*p^8*(1-p)^2*(10!/(8!*2!)) + 7000*p^7*(1-p)^3*(10!/(7!*3!))... This also has a maximum at p~= 0.774, with expected value of $6968. This verifies that your shortcut was correct.

James' equation gives a bigger value, because he doesn't account for the fact that the lost payoff is always the maximum $10,000. His equation would be the correct one to use, if the problem were with 20 people, 10 of which determine the payoff and the other 10 whether the payoff is payed and they all have to use the same probability.