conchis comments on Why Our Kind Can't Cooperate - Less Wrong
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No. That's not really what I meant at all. Take nationalism or religion, for example. I think both are based on some false beliefs. However, a belief in one or the other may make a person more willing to sacrifice his well-being for the good of his tribe. This may improve the average chances of survival and reproduction of an individual in the tribe. So members of irrational groups out-compete the rational ones.
In the post above Eliezer is basically lamenting that when people behave rationally, they refuse to act against their self-interest, and damn it, it's hurting the rational tribe. That's informative, and sort of my point.
There is some evidence that we have brain structures specialized for religious experience. One would think that these structures could only have evolved if they offered some reproductive benefit to animals becoming self-aware in the land of tooth and claw.
In the harsh world that prevailed up until just the last few centuries, religion provided people comfort. Happy people are less susceptible to disease, more ambitious, and generally more successful. Atheism has always been as true as it is today. However, I wouldn't recommend it to a 13th century peasant.
This is not true a priori. That is my point. My challenge to you, Eliezer, and the other denizens of this site is simply: "prove it".
And I offer this challenge especially to Eliezer. Eliezer, I am calling you out. Justify your optimism in the prudence of truth.
Disprove the parable of Eve and the fruit of the tree of knowledge.
"Eliezer is basically lamenting that when people behave rationally, they refuse to act against their self-interest, and damn it, it's hurting the rational tribe. That's informative, and sort of my point."
So if that's Eliezer's point, and it's also your point, what is it that you actually disagree about?
I take Eliezer to be saying that sometimes rational individuals fail to co-operate, but that things needn't be so. In response, you seem to be asking him to prove that rational individuals must co-operate - when he already appears to have accepted that this isn't true.
Isn't the relevant issue whether it is possible for rational individuals to co-operate? Provided we don't make silly mistakes like equating rationality with self-interest, I don't see why not - but maybe this whole thread is evidence to the contrary. ;)
My point isn't exactly clear for a few reasons. First, I was using this post opportunistically to explore a topic that has been on my mind for awhile. Secondly, Eliezer makes statements that sometimes seem to support the "truth = moral good = prudent" assumption, and sometimes not.
He's provided me with links to some of his past writing, I've talked enough, it is time to read and reflect (after I finish a paper for finals).