waitingforgodel comments on Dark Arts 101: Using presuppositions - Less Wrong

65 Post author: PhilGoetz 27 December 2010 05:16PM

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Comment author: BillyOblivion 01 January 2011 11:48:25AM 2 points [-]

That's nonsense.

1) There is quite a bit of journalism that has nothing to do with exposing other peoples secrets. This would include reporting on natural events (storms, snow, earthquakes, politicians lying or accepting bribes), human activities (that a murder happened, who the police claim to be interested in etc., business information (stock prices, sales, etc.)) all of which and more require no subterfuge, burglary, or other morally or legally questionable activities to learn about and create a report of.

2) Almost no espionage (as a percentage of the total amount created) is intended for eventual exposure via "the press", be that a real press, the internets, or various video outlets. I've been (tangentially) in the espionage industry (providing non-espionage (and non-interesting) support to people doing electronic intelligence gathering) and I have some feel for the amount of data gathered this way. I've also been (at a different time) in the Media Industry (providing similar non-interesting support to a much more interesting set of artists) and there really is NO similarity between the two, other than some journalists also providing some humint to military and civilian intelligence sources. (Note, I've never been on the humint side and know nothing of this that isn't already out there. It could be disinformation, it could be real.)

Very few journalists are aware and disciplined enough to be intelligence assets. Most who are are egotistical f'wits (like the aforementioned Assange) who just want more money and fame and don't care who they kill to get it.

What Assange did was neither espionage, nor journalism. He simply accepted material someone else had stolen (Manning was the one committing espionage with the Iraq documents.) and then published it (as far as I know) unedited.

The big fallacy being committed here is that Assange is not, or at least shouldn't be subject to US law, and as such is not covered by the Constitution. I believe our constitution to be the least-bad construction of a government yet implemented in a pluralistic society, and that in general our government is at least as transparent (given it's size and scope) as there is.

But we do not (yet) own the world and trying to try an Australian citizen for something that isn't clearly a crime in America (vis the pentagon papers case) and didn't actually happen in America (unless I missed something Assange isn't here in the states and didn't receive the materiel here) is really a fucking stretch folks.

A US citizen cannot be tried and convicted in an Australian court for the crime of owning a handgun IN THE US, even though it would be a crime in Australia (handwaving some legal details here, the point is jurisdiction). Now, if there is a statute in Australia that makes what Assange did illegal, then THEY need to try him, and I can tell you for certain that there ain't no constitutional protections there.

Comment author: waitingforgodel 01 January 2011 09:52:02PM *  1 point [-]

LOL, how did I miss this:

1) There is quite a bit of journalism that has nothing to do with exposing other peoples secrets. This would include reporting on natural events (storms, snow, earthquakes, politicians lying or accepting bribes).

Are you under the impression that a politician wouldn't consider his accepting bribes to be a secret?

Comment author: Alicorn 01 January 2011 09:57:33PM 3 points [-]

I think it was being classed as a "natural event".

Comment author: waitingforgodel 02 January 2011 08:32:00AM -1 points [-]

He says that natural events are included in the category of journalism that's not about exposing other peoples secrets....