Boyi comments on How to Not Lose an Argument - Less Wrong

109 Post author: Yvain 19 March 2009 01:07AM

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Comment author: [deleted] 14 December 2011 08:08:50PM *  2 points [-]

Rhetoric can be used as force, but to reduce it to "dark arts" is reductionist. Just as to not see the force being used by rationalists is also reductionist.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "reductionist"? You seem to be using it as an epithet, and I honestly don't understand the connection between the way you're using the word in those two sentences.

On LessWrong we generally draw a distinction between honest, white-hat writing/speaking techniques that make one's arguments clearer and dishonest techniques that manipulate the reader/listener ("Dark Arts"). Most rhetoric, especially political or religious rhetoric, contains some of the latter.

Rationalists want to use facts to force people to conform to what they believe

Again, this is just not what we're about. There's a huge difference between giving people rationality skills so that they are better at drawing conclusions based on their observations and telling them to believe what we believe.

Can you taboo "force"? That might help this discussion move to more fertile ground.