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TimS comments on How to Not Lose an Argument - Less Wrong
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I once thought the manifest rightness of post-modern thought would convince those naive realists of the truth, if only they were presented with it clearly. It doesn't work that way, for several reasons:
Many "post-modern" ideas get co-opted into mainstream thought. Once, Legal Realism was a revolutionary critique of legal formalism. Now it's what every cynical lawyer thinks while driving to work. In this community, it is possible to talk about "norms of the community" both in reference to this community and other communities. At least in part, that's an effect of the co-option of post-modern ideas like "imagined communities."
Post-modernism is often intentionally provocative (i.e. broadening the concept of force). Therefore, you shouldn't be surprised when your provocation actually provokes. Further, you are challenging core beliefs of a community, and should expect push-back. Cf. the controversy in Texas about including discussion of the Spot Resolution in textbooks.
As Kuhn and Feyerabend said, you can't be a good philosopher of science if you aren't a good historian of science. You haven't demonstrated that you have a good grasp of what science believes about itself, as shown in part by your loose language when asserting claims.
Additionally, you are the one challenging the status quo beliefs, so the burden of proof is placed on you. In some abstract sense, that might not be "fair." Given your use of post-modern analysis, why are you surprised that people respond badly to challenges to the imagined community? This community is engaging with you fairly well, all things considered.
ETA: In case it isn't clear, I consider myself a post-modernist, at least compared to what seems to be the standard position here at LW.
Really great post! You are completely right on all accounts. Except I really am not a post-modernist, I just agree with some of their ideas, especially conceptions of power as you have pointed out.
I am particularly impressed with Bullet point # 2, because not only does it show an understanding of the basis of my ideas, but it also accurately points out irrationality in my actions given the theories I assert.
I would then ask you if understand this aspect of communities including your own, would you call this rational? It is no excuse, but I think coming here I was under the impression that equality in burden of proof, acccomdation of norms and standards, would be the norm, because I view these things as rational.
Does it seem rational that one side does not hold the burden of proof? To me it is normal for debate because each side is focused solely on winning. But I would call pure debate a part of rhetoric ("the dark arts"). I thought here people would be more concerned with Truth than winning.
Does it really seem to you that the statement "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary support" is not rational?
Obviously, there's substantial power in deciding what claims are extraordinary.