uninverted comments on New Year's Predictions Thread (2011) - Less Wrong

10 Post author: Kevin 02 January 2011 09:58AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (224)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: [deleted] 03 January 2011 05:15:40AM *  0 points [-]

It's not climate science, it's mathematics. The probability of a specific number being the highest in a sequence goes down rapidly as the number of items increases. And it's not like the temperature is doubling every year, either.

Comment author: James_K 03 January 2011 07:46:02PM 6 points [-]

That's only true for a stationary series, which temperature isn't. For a random walk series you can have a 50% chance of each new observation being the highest ever in the series. For a trended series it can be higher than 50%.

Comment author: Jack 03 January 2011 05:44:21AM *  3 points [-]

Every year of the last ten years is among the top 15 warmest years on record. The other years are '00 '99, 98', '97 and '95. It seems very likely 2011 will be in the top 10, there is of course variation but you'd be crazy to expect a normal distribution. "Historically hot summer" is somewhat ambiguous but I'd say >.5 2011 is a top 5 warmest year (I don't have summer data- we might presume more variability there). ~10% for the hottest year on record doesn't sound crazy to me.

Comment author: [deleted] 03 January 2011 06:24:18AM 4 points [-]

Okay, forget everything I just said; that probability does seem reasonable after seeing that data.

Comment author: wedrifid 03 January 2011 06:26:51AM 4 points [-]

It's not climate science, it's mathematics. The probability of a specific number being the highest in a sequence goes down rapidly as the number of items increases.

Not so. It is not mathematics itself that assumes a neat random distribution. Your assertion is about climate science.

Comment author: Skatche 03 January 2011 06:04:22AM 2 points [-]

I was simply going by remembered frequencies: every year since I started paying attention I've heard, at least once, something of the form "This year/season/month/day was (one of) the hottest on record in Ontario/Canada/America/the world." I therefore take the probability that at least one of these things happening to be quite high, and so the probability of specifically the U.S. having specifically a "historically hot" summer, although small, is by no means negligible. 10% is a reasonable rough estimate.

Comment author: Plasmon 03 January 2011 06:41:52AM *  2 points [-]

Did you know in certain parts of Europe, this winter was the first winter since 1945 where it has snowed for more than (some number) days before (some date) ?

Media like records, so they will report quantities that attain a record value.

Comment author: Skatche 03 January 2011 07:01:18AM 0 points [-]

That's true, but irrelevant. The fact that they're being reported doesn't change the fact that record values are, indeed, being attained.

Comment author: paulfchristiano 03 January 2011 07:31:00AM *  0 points [-]

It depends on how natural the records in question are. If there are 100 different records to be broken, you expect every year to break one and you should never be surprised when someone reports on it.

If you are choosing random properties and finding them to be extremal with reasonable probability, then you are getting a totally different sort of data.

Comment author: wedrifid 03 January 2011 08:08:06AM 1 point [-]

It depends on how natural the records in question are. If there are 100 different records to be broken, you expect every year to break one and you should never be surprised when someone reports on it.

This is also true but irrelevant. Skatche wasn't making predictions about whether he would be surprised by reports of records being broken. Just a specific prediction about weather.