Sheaman3773 comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 7 - Less Wrong

7 Post author: Unnamed 14 January 2011 06:49AM

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Comment author: Acrinoe 27 January 2011 12:15:05AM 5 points [-]

Two Questions/Guesses

1) Prof. Quirrell pointed out that Harry was especially vulnerable to the "Finite Incantatem" spell (to removed his transfigured armor). How does the canon mechanics of this spell work from a tactical standpoint? Is it area of effect or targeted on a per spell basis? Can a weak 1st year dispel a casting done by Headmaster Dumbledor or does caster strength play a role in its effectivity? Depending on the answers, Harry's vulnerability could be mitigated by pure strength or recursive spell depth or minor covering spells to absorb the dispelling castings. 'Just saying. :)

2) In terms of world building, I wonder if Harry is considering that he's got good evidence of living in a "matrix style" simulation with the reality glitches that is the existence of magic. It seems to me like just so many reality "cheat codes", hence Harry's inability to derive underlying principles in the operation and physics of magic. Indeed, the whole hero/quest/prophecy shtick would also count heavily towards a simulation argument.

Comment author: Sheaman3773 27 January 2011 02:06:15AM *  3 points [-]

1) Prof. Quirrell pointed out that Harry was especially vulnerable to the "Finite Incantatem" spell (to removed his transfigured armor). How does the canon mechanics of this spell work from a tactical standpoint? Is it area of effect or targeted on a per spell basis? Can a weak 1st year dispel a casting done by Headmaster Dumbledor or does caster strength play a role in its effectivity? Depending on the answers, Harry's vulnerability could be mitigated by pure strength or recursive spell depth or minor covering spells to absorb the dispelling castings. 'Just saying. :)

As I understand it, Finite Incantatem is an Area Effect spell, while Finite is targeted.

Additionally, strength definitely factors in--again, as I understand it.

edit: Strength has to factor in somehow. Even ignoring the ridiculous unbalancing effect that would have, they're in Hogwarts. If it would cancel every spell in the area, regardless of strength, Hogwarts itself would be affected with every cast.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 30 January 2011 07:00:43PM 5 points [-]

Haven't really thought about it until now, but I'll assume that Finite is a brute-force method requiring strength proportional to the original spell to cancel (so a Transfiguration that takes minutes would require a mass casting to cancel, perhaps) and sometimes won't work at all, while specialized counter-jinx just works if the caster has sufficient strength to cast it.

Comment author: Psy-Kosh 30 January 2011 09:18:13PM 4 points [-]

Depends... if the original spell took time/effort due to it being, well, for lack of a better word "delicate", then finite should work easily on it, while a simple spell that you can just pump more and more power into should require a really strong finite to cancel.

At least, that's how I'd imagine it.