scientism comments on Just a reminder: Scientists are, technically, people. - Less Wrong

6 Post author: PhilGoetz 20 March 2009 08:33PM

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Comment author: komponisto 21 March 2009 02:10:56AM *  5 points [-]

Scientists also have highly unrepresentative personalities, high in openness to experience, and tend not to care about conservative values like respect for authority, group loyalty, and various taboos .Delegation of decision-making power to representative samples of elite scientists will thus favor those values more than the policies that would be adopted by a set of comparably informed people with values representative of the population.

This is a good summary of the bioethicists' argument; but I find their argument unconvincing. My suspicion is that the values of "comparably informed people" would inevitably tend to resemble those of scientists -- at least for practical purposes.

Concretely, for instance, it seems that much if not most of the opposition to embryonic stem-cell research is based on a failure to grasp the empirical fact that personhood resides in brain structure: no neurons, no person.

Maybe in principle there could still be moral arguments worth having that don't directly depend on the science; and maybe scientists would be biased toward certain stances in such arguments. But I don't think that's what's really going on here.

Comment author: scientism 21 March 2009 02:28:25AM -2 points [-]

If personhood resides in brain structure then a brain-in-a-vat would be a person. Presumably its personhood would be postulated on the grounds of it having some sort of subjective experience. But that's not an empirical fact so I don't think personhood residing in brain structure can be classed as an empirical fact either.

Comment author: MBlume 21 March 2009 02:54:07AM 4 points [-]

if you're treating "brain in a vat=person" as a reductio, you've either got a lot to learn, or you've got a lot of explaining to do before this crowd's going to take you seriously.

Comment author: scientism 21 March 2009 12:01:22PM 0 points [-]

It's not an empirical fact that a brain-in-a-vat has subjective experience. It's a thought experiment. Thought experiments don't establish empirical facts.

Comment author: AllanCrossman 21 March 2009 12:42:22PM 3 points [-]

"It's not an empirical fact that a brain-in-a-vat has subjective experience."

If we could watch what the BIAV gets up to in its simulated world, we could see it interacting with its simulated environment. This would give us the same level of confidence in its having subjective experience as we have for any normal person.