janos comments on An Abortion Dialogue - Less Wrong

10 Post author: gwern 12 February 2011 01:20AM

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Comment author: janos 12 February 2011 05:58:37AM *  0 points [-]

It seems to me that we mean different things by the words "reactive" (as opposed to proactive) and "specific". A weak attempt at a reductio: I proactively do X to avoid facing Y; I am thus reacting to my desire to avoid facing Y. And is Y general or specific? Y is the specific Y that I do X to avoid facing.

Comment author: Dreaded_Anomaly 12 February 2011 06:16:39AM *  3 points [-]
  1. A person doesn't want to have a baby, so she has an abortion to stop the fetus from developing into one.
  2. A person doesn't want to have a fetus, so she uses contraception to stop the ovum and sperm from developing into one.

If 1 is reactive, then so is 2.

For a given fetus, there is a finite possibility space of all the persons into which it could develop, taking into account different values of unknown future parameters. The same can be said of any combination of sperm and ova; it's just that the possibility space is larger. How would one derive a concept of "specific" that discriminates between the fetus space and the sperm/ova space without drawing an arbitrary line based on the size of the space?

Comment author: janos 12 February 2011 06:48:23AM 0 points [-]

Do you have an instance of "I proactively do X" where you do not class it as reactive? Do you have an instance of "I wish to avoid Y" where you do not class it as specific? I don't like conversations about definitions. I was using these words to describe a hypothetical inner experience; I don't claim that they aren't fuzzy. You seem to be pointing at the fuzziness and saying that they're meaningless; I don't see why you'd want to do that.

Comment author: Dreaded_Anomaly 12 February 2011 07:02:26AM 4 points [-]

My point is that 1 and 2 above don't seem to differ fundamentally in either of the two descriptors you used.

Conversations about definitions of words are not useful, but definitions of concepts are necessary. I'm pointing at the fuzziness because it indicates to me that the supposed distinction is not being made based on any principle, but simply to rationalize a preexisting bias.

Comment author: janos 12 February 2011 07:46:08AM *  0 points [-]

I wasn't trying to present a principled distinction, or trying to avoid bias. What I was saying isn't something I'm going to defend. The only reason I responded to your criticism of it was that I was annoyed by the nature of your objection. However, since now I know you thought I was trying to say more than I actually was, I will freely ignore your objection.