TheOtherDave comments on An Abortion Dialogue - Less Wrong

10 Post author: gwern 12 February 2011 01:20AM

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Comment author: Eugine_Nier 12 February 2011 05:57:04PM 2 points [-]

Also, I want to point out that the moral issues are nowhere near as clear-cut as you (and Kant) seem to think. Even if you axiomatically assert that people have terminal value, you still need to explain why people have that value, whereas trees (for example) do not. And also clarify the boundaries of that protected class "people". (Does it include fetuses, conceptuses, persons cryonically frozen, HeLa cultures, etc.?)

What if I were to ask the same question about why society should be valued?

Is it possible to answer these questions without once veering into the realm of instrumental values?

If you keep trying to justify values instrumentally, you'll wind up in an infinite regress.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 12 February 2011 11:03:27PM 4 points [-]

Not necessarily.

Maybe what I would discover instead, if I actually charted out my value structure, that all of the things I value exist in an interlocking network that doesn't ground out in any special real, true, honest-to-goodness, fundamental, basic, not-dependent-on-anything, terminal values.

While I'm not committed to the absence of terminal values, I consider the possibility plausible, and I don't find the "well, there's got to be something at the bottom of the stack!" argument for their presence convincing.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 12 February 2011 11:20:03PM 3 points [-]

That still doesn't answer the question of why that value structure as opposed to some other.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 13 February 2011 12:44:18AM 1 point [-]

Absolutely true. Was responding to the last bit of your comment and ended up completely disregarding your greater context... sorry.

This is a bit of a hobbyhorse of mine at the moment, especially since so much of the discussion about ethics here seems predicated on the existence of terminal values that can't be interpreted in terms of anything else.

Comment author: wedrifid 13 February 2011 02:45:01AM *  1 point [-]

Maybe what I would discover instead, if I actually charted out my value structure, that all of the things I value exist in an interlocking network that doesn't ground out in any special real, true, honest-to-goodness, fundamental, basic, not-dependent-on-anything, terminal values.

It sounds like your value structure represents (hazily specified) terminal values.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 13 February 2011 03:23:52AM 2 points [-]

It doesn't sound that way to me, so if you unpack it I'd be interested.