dlthomas comments on Eliezer Yudkowsky Facts - Less Wrong

124 Post author: steven0461 22 March 2009 08:17PM

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Comment author: ArisKatsaris 03 December 2010 01:14:14PM 15 points [-]

I haven't read the quantum physics sequence but by what I have glimpsed this is just wrong. That's why people suggest one should read the material before criticizing it.

Irony.

Xixidu, you should also read the material before trying to defend it.

Comment author: XiXiDu 03 December 2010 02:10:07PM *  2 points [-]

Correct. Yet I have read some subsequent discussions about that topic (MWI) and also watched this talk:

What single-world interpretation basically say to fit MWI: All but one world are eliminated by a magic faster than light non-local time-asymmetric acausal collapser-device.

I also read Decoherence is Simple and Decoherence is Falsifiable and Testable.

So far MWI sounds like the most reasonable interpretation to me. And from what I have read I can tell that the sentence - "despite the lack of testable predictions differing from the Copenhagen interpretation" - is not crucial in favoring MWI over other interpretations.

Of course I am not able to judge that MWI is the correct interpretation but, given my current epistemic state, of all interpretations it is the most likely to be correct. For one it sounds reasonable, secondly Yudkowsky's judgement has a considerable weight here. I have no reason to suspect that it would benefit him to favor MWI over other interpretations. Yet there is much evidence that suggests that he is highly intelligent and that he is able to judge what is the correct interpretation given all evidence a non-physicists can take into account.

Edit: "[...] is not correct, or at least not crucial." now reads "[...] is not crucial in favoring MWI over other interpretations."

Comment author: thomblake 03 December 2010 02:28:50PM 4 points [-]

And from what I have read I can tell that the sentence - "despite the lack of testable predictions differing from the Copenhagen interpretation" - is not correct, or at least not crucial.

It is correct, and it is crucial in the sense that most philosophy of science would insist that differing testable predictions is all that would favor one theory over another.

But other concerns (the Bayesian interpretation of Occam's Razor (or any interpretation, probably)) make MWI preferred.

Comment author: dlthomas 09 December 2011 07:41:35PM *  5 points [-]

An interpretation of Occam's Razor that placed all emphasis on space complexity would clearly favor the Copenhagen interpretation over the MW interpretation. Of course, it would also favor "you're living in a holodeck" over "there's an actual universe out there", so it's a poor formulation in it's simplest form... but it's not obvious (to me, anyway) that space complexity should count for nothing at all, and if it counts for "enough" (whatever that is, for the particular rival interpretation) MWI loses.

Comment author: [deleted] 09 July 2014 05:48:58AM 2 points [-]

That's would not be Occam's razor...

Comment author: dlthomas 14 July 2014 06:58:27PM -1 points [-]

What particular gold-standard "Occam's razor" are you adhering to, then? It seems to fit well with "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" and "pluralities must never be posited without necessity".

Note that I'm not saying there is no gold-standard "Occam's razor" to which we should be adhering (in terms of denotation of the term or more generally); I'm just unaware of an interpretaton that clearly lays out how "entities" or "assumptions" are counted, or how the complexity of a hypothesis is otherwise measured, which is clearly "the canonical Occam's razor" as opposed to having some other name. If there is one, by all means please make me aware!

Comment author: [deleted] 14 July 2014 10:25:07PM *  2 points [-]

Minimum description length.

The MWI requires fewer rules than Copenhagen, and therefore its description is smaller, and therefore it is the strictly simpler theory.

Comment author: dlthomas 15 July 2014 01:03:29PM 1 point [-]

Is there anything in particular that leads you to claim Minimum Description Length is the only legitimate claimaint to the title "Occam's razor"? It was introduced much later, and the wikipedia article claims it is "a forumlation of Occam's razor".

Certainly, William of Occam wasn't dealing in terms of information compression.

Comment author: [deleted] 15 July 2014 01:26:46PM 1 point [-]

The answer seems circular: because it works. The experience of people using Occam's razor (e.g. scientists) find MDL to be more likely to lead to correct answers than any other formulation.

Comment author: dlthomas 15 July 2014 03:34:56PM 1 point [-]

I don't see that that makes other formulations "not Occam's razor", it just makes them less useful attempts at formalizing Occam's razor. If an alternative formalization was found to work better, it would not be MDL - would MDL cease to be "Occam's razor"? Or would the new, better formalization "not be Occam's razor"? Of the latter, by what metric, since the new one "works better"?

For the record, I certainly agree that "space complexity alone" is a poor metric. I just don't see that it should clearly be excluded entirely. I'm generally happy to exclude it on the grounds of parsimony, but this whole subthread was "How could MWI not be the most reasonable choice...?"