Mark_Friedenbach comments on Eliezer Yudkowsky Facts - Less Wrong

124 Post author: steven0461 22 March 2009 08:17PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (290)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: dlthomas 14 July 2014 06:58:27PM -1 points [-]

What particular gold-standard "Occam's razor" are you adhering to, then? It seems to fit well with "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" and "pluralities must never be posited without necessity".

Note that I'm not saying there is no gold-standard "Occam's razor" to which we should be adhering (in terms of denotation of the term or more generally); I'm just unaware of an interpretaton that clearly lays out how "entities" or "assumptions" are counted, or how the complexity of a hypothesis is otherwise measured, which is clearly "the canonical Occam's razor" as opposed to having some other name. If there is one, by all means please make me aware!

Comment author: [deleted] 14 July 2014 10:25:07PM *  2 points [-]

Minimum description length.

The MWI requires fewer rules than Copenhagen, and therefore its description is smaller, and therefore it is the strictly simpler theory.

Comment author: dlthomas 15 July 2014 01:03:29PM 1 point [-]

Is there anything in particular that leads you to claim Minimum Description Length is the only legitimate claimaint to the title "Occam's razor"? It was introduced much later, and the wikipedia article claims it is "a forumlation of Occam's razor".

Certainly, William of Occam wasn't dealing in terms of information compression.

Comment author: [deleted] 15 July 2014 01:26:46PM 1 point [-]

The answer seems circular: because it works. The experience of people using Occam's razor (e.g. scientists) find MDL to be more likely to lead to correct answers than any other formulation.

Comment author: dlthomas 15 July 2014 03:34:56PM 1 point [-]

I don't see that that makes other formulations "not Occam's razor", it just makes them less useful attempts at formalizing Occam's razor. If an alternative formalization was found to work better, it would not be MDL - would MDL cease to be "Occam's razor"? Or would the new, better formalization "not be Occam's razor"? Of the latter, by what metric, since the new one "works better"?

For the record, I certainly agree that "space complexity alone" is a poor metric. I just don't see that it should clearly be excluded entirely. I'm generally happy to exclude it on the grounds of parsimony, but this whole subthread was "How could MWI not be the most reasonable choice...?"

Comment author: [deleted] 15 July 2014 04:46:15PM *  1 point [-]

There's an intent behind Occam's razor. When Einstein improved on Newton's gravity, gravity itself didn't change. Rather, our understanding of gravity was improved by a better model. We could say though that Newton's model is not gravity because we have found instances where gravity does not behave the way Newton predicted.

Underlying Occam's razor is the simple idea that we should prefer simple ideas. Over time we have found ways to formalize this statement in ways that are universally applicable. These formalizations are getting closer and closer to what Occam's razor is.

Comment author: dlthomas 15 July 2014 06:30:18PM 0 points [-]

I'll accept that.