rhollerith_dot_com comments on LW was started to help altruists - Less Wrong

-6 Post author: rhollerith_dot_com 19 February 2011 09:13PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (34)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: rhollerith_dot_com 20 February 2011 02:07:51AM *  2 points [-]

I get the vague 'hidden argument' feeling that I get from seeing Dark Arts in action.

That leads me to believe I have been insufficiently transparent about my motivations for writing, so let me try to rectify that insufficiency:

This site (and OB before it and the SL4 mailing list) has always been an congenial place for altruists, and I wanted to preserve that quality.

Now that I have the comments, it occurs to me that my post was probably too heavy-handed in how it went about that goal, but I still think that an effective way to achieve that goal is to write a post that altruists will like and non-altruists will find pointless or even slightly off-putting. if too high a fraction of the recent posts on this site have nothing interesting to say to altruists, that is a problem because most readers will not read a lot of the content written in previous years because that is the way the web is. (the post I was replying to starts by wondering whether LW should have more posts about recursive human self-improvement, and recursive human self-improvement short of whole brain emulation or similar long-range plans is not a potent enough means to altruistic end to be interesting to altruists.) But my post was too heavy-handed in that it was a reply to a post not of interest to altruists rather than being a post that stands on its own and is of interest to altruists and not of interests to non-altruists.

Another motivation I had was to persuade people to become more altruistic, but now that I see it written out like that, it occurs to me that probably the only way to do that effectively on LW is to set a positive personal example. also, it occurs to me that my post did engage in some exhortation or even cheer-leading, and exhortation and cheer-leading are probably ineffective.

Comment author: Dorikka 20 February 2011 04:12:40AM *  4 points [-]

I'm not sure that I can answer effectively without stating how altruistic I consider myself to be. I feel that I am a semi-altruist -- I assign higher utility to the welfare and happiness people I am personally attached to and myself, but, by default, I assign positive utility to the welfare and happiness of any sentient being.

I found your post offputting because it looked like a covert argument for altruism of the following form:

  1. Eliezer and co. are altruists
  2. Eliezer and co have written material (especially) to help altruists, and you have benefited.
  3. Thus, you should be an altruist.

To me, this resembles an argument from authority and possibly an attempt at trying to make people feel that they should pay for goods already received.

This, this, and this are appealing to me as emotional arguments for altruism, just in case this helps you get a better idea of where I am coming from.

Edit: Click on the "Help" tag on the bottom left of the comments box to see how to italicize words in comments.

Comment author: rhollerith_dot_com 20 February 2011 05:51:50AM *  0 points [-]

Eliezer and co have written material (especially) to help altruists, and you have benefited. Thus, you should be an altruist. . . . trying to make people feel that they should pay for goods already received.

Agree, though to be an effective use of the Dark Arts, I should have followed up with what the marketing folks call a "call to action".

Thanks for your comments.