First I want to note that "the sensation of pain, considered in and of itself" is, after "the redness of red", the second most standard example of "qualia". So if, like good Dennettians, we're going to deny that qualia exist then we'd better deny that "the sensation of pain in and of itself" has moral disvalue!

I know Dennett's usually right about this sort of thing and so there must be something to that argument, but I've never been able to understand it no matter how hard I try. It looks too much like wishful thinking - "these qualia things are really confusing, so screw that." Certainly it's not the sort of Reduction with a capital "R" I've heard that's left me genuinely satisfied about the nonexistence of things like Free Will or Good or Essence-Of-Chair-Ness.

I would be hesitant to say the sensation of pain in and of itself has moral disvalue; I would say that people have preferences against pain and that the violation of those preferences causes moral disvalue in the same sense as the violation of any other preference. I would have no trouble with inflicting pain on a masochist, a person with pain asymbolia, or a person voluntarily undergoing some kind of conditioning.

Damage can also be something people have a preference against, but it's not necessarily more important than pain. There are amounts of torture such that I would prefer permanently losing a finger to undergoing that torture, and I suspect it's the same for most other people.

What I want to say is that even with these elaborations, the story is just as repulsive - it offends our moral sense just as much - as any story of torture. This would still be true even if the victim had died shortly after the lobotomy.

You seem to be arguing from "Things other than pain are bad" to "Pain is not bad", which is not valid.

I admit your Paul Atreides example doesn't disgust me so much, but I think that's because number one I have no mental imagery associated with gom jabbars, and number two I feel like he's a legendary Messiah figure so he should be able to take it.

If we start talking about non-Kwisatz Haderach people, like say your little sister, and we start talking about them being whipped to death instead of an invisible and inscrutable gom jabbar, I find my intuition shifts pretty far the other direction.

I'd be lying if I said I was 100% happy about biting it, but neither am I 100% sure that my position is inconsistent otherwise.

So I'm reading about your moral system in your other post, and I don't want to get into debating it fully here. But surely you can recognize that just as some things and systems are beautiful and fascinating and complex, there are other systems that are especially and uniquely horrible, and that it is a moral credit to remove them from the world. Sometimes I read about the more horrible atrocities perpetrated in the Nazi camps and North Korea, and I feel physically sick that there is no way I can't just kill everyone involved, the torturers and victims both, and relieve them of their suffering, and that this is the strongest moral imperative imaginable, much more important than the part where we make sure there are lots of rainforests and interesting buildings and such. Have you never felt this emotion? And if so, have you ever read a really good fictional dystopian work?