Nornagest comments on Less Wrong NYC: Case Study of a Successful Rationalist Chapter - Less Wrong
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Comments (166)
No, this is not a mere worldview phenomenon. Apparently the NYC LW group has successfully proved, contrary to all stereotypes, that rationality done right makes you a more attractive mate.
Contrast:
1) "How could you say that! You terrible mean person who wants to hurt my feelings!"
2) "You need to understand that when you say something like that, it makes me feel as though you're trying to hurt my feelings, whether or not you do."
3) "I'm sorry about how I reacted; even though I know on the level of rational probabilities that it's extremely unlikely you meant to hurt my feelings, I'm still working on getting my brain to alieve that and not just believe it."
Let's say you've got a mate at level 1. Then you join a group in which you find (a) single people at level 3 and (b) a widespread understanding of the concept of the "sunk cost fallacy" and the importance of saying oops and changing your policies occasionally.
What do you think happens next?
And yes, NYC LW is demonstrating that this also works with women realizing that they can no longer stand to be around non-rationalist guys.
PS: Cultish countercultishness. I'm actually pretty sick of hearing someone yell "Cult!" every time rationalists try to coordinate as well as a model railroad club. Why Our Kind Can't Cooperate.
Apparently I erred too much on the side of short and punchy. The scenario you outline seems like a special case of the point I was trying to make: namely, that changing minds in any way changes the basis of a relationship, and sometimes the relationship in its changed state will end up unstable. Even aside from your (entirely reasonable) scenario, there's unfortunately no shortage of people who seem to respond poorly to rationality as implemented by LW in its current state (as opposed to idealized always-wins rationality), which presumably shares a number of characteristics with the flavor the New York guys are teaching.
Heck, a competent instrumental rationalist in an unhappy relationship is if nothing else probably more likely to hack off the bloody stump of the partnership than a non-rationalist (being undeterred by sunk costs and unwarranted feelings of obligation), and I'd expect that alone to generate a correlation between new membership in rationality-oriented communities and the termination of existing relationships.
And yeah, the cult accusations are annoying, which was the other point I apparently failed to convey. I've seen firsthand what real cult psychology looks like. It's not at all pretty, and it's not what we've got going on here.
For the record, saying "cult alert" might not constitute an accusation, but rather "you need to watch your PR".