gjm comments on Crime and punishment - Less Wrong

39 Post author: PhilGoetz 24 March 2011 09:53PM

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Comment author: ewbrownv 25 March 2011 04:37:08PM 1 point [-]

You think having your brain forcibly re-written isn't a punishment? A robot using physical force on you isn't a threat? No, law = threat of punishment in every past or existing society, because that's the only way it can work unless you have universal mind pre-emptive mind control or a godlike singleton AI.

The idea that there's some alternative to punishing criminals only seems sensible if you redefine 'punishment' to leave out whatever you're suggesting as an alternative to prison time.

Comment author: gjm 25 March 2011 10:31:09PM 2 points [-]

Those things are doubtless unpleasant, or at least undesired, but if the unpleasantness is merely a side effect and the intended prevention of crimes happens independently of the unpleasantness then they are not punishments in the sense that's relevant here.

Of course, if someone wants to do X and a society's enforcement mechanisms -- whatever they are -- stops them doing X, or does something to make doing X unattractive to them despite their wanting to do it, then that's going to be unpleasant for them. In that sense, crime implies punishment. But it's a very weak sense and not, I think, the one that's relevant to this discussion.