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khafra comments on Separate morality from free will - Less Wrong
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"Subversion" seems unspecific. Does that mean, would I go back in time and use my amazing NLP powers or whatever to convince Hitler to try art school again instead of starting a world war and putting millions into death camps? Or is this "subversion" more active and violent?
it goes both ways. those who try to disastrously subvert others as part of their utility get less moral consideration.