PhilGoetz comments on Guilt: Another Gift Nobody Wants - Less Wrong

67 Post author: Yvain 31 March 2011 12:27AM

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Comment author: PhilGoetz 31 March 2011 10:04:07PM *  15 points [-]

I believe that my dog felt guilt, because when I would come home and find he'd gotten into the garbage and strewn it around the kitchen, he would use body language very similar to that of a human who was feeling guilt. (The dog was not picking up on my emotions, because I usually hadn't seen the mess yet, and didn't know what he'd done until his body language told me.)

This body language has much in common with submissive body language, which is partly shared between canines and primates.

So ancestral "guilt" could have been "the emotion you feel after disobeying the alpha", which helps you display submission and also not do it again so you don't get beaten again. It could originally have just been a type of fear. (Perhaps it still is!)

This is compatible with Yvain's explanation - it would have the effect Yvain described; consistent guilty behavior would provide evidence that you would be likely to obey the alpha even in his/her absence. But the origin could be simpler than that.

Comment author: JulianMorrison 03 April 2011 01:25:51PM 6 points [-]

Testable predictions:

  • you should feel measurably less guilty doing things that harm subordinates, than things that harm superiors

  • if you are the absolute alpha, guilt should disappear

  • if you are a local alpha, guilt should disappear in that local context, while reappearing in a context where your superior disapproves

Comment author: gwern 16 December 2012 06:04:30PM 2 points [-]

Some of the existing psychological results seem consistent with such claims: http://lesswrong.com/lw/dtg/notes_on_the_psychology_of_power/

Comment author: ialdabaoth 16 December 2012 04:43:26PM 0 points [-]

That seems remarkably similar to most people's actual behavior within dominance hierarchies, as I have observed them.

Comment author: alexflint 02 April 2011 09:41:04AM 0 points [-]

I observed the same thing in a dog we had several years ago. Sometimes we never found out what she'd done wrong, but we knew it was something she believed was pretty bad because she'd slink around with her stomach almost dragging along the ground for hours.