Q: What has Rationality Done for You?

atucker

So after reading SarahC's latest post I noticed that she's gotten a lot out of rationality.

More importantly, she got different things out of it than I have.

Off the top of my head, I've learned...

that other people see themselves differently, and should be understood on their terms (mostly from here)
that I can pay attention to what I'm doing, and try to notice patterns to make intervention more effective.
the whole utilitarian structure of having a goal that you take actions to achieve, coupled with the idea of an optimization process. It was really helpful to me to realize that you can do whatever it takes to achieve something, not just what has been suggested.
the importance/usefulness of dissolving the question/how words work (especially great when combined with previous part)
that an event is evidence for something, not just what I think it can support
to pull people in, don't force them. Seriously that one is ridiculously useful. Thanks David Gerard.
that things don't happen unless something makes them happen.
that other people are smart and cool, and often have good advice

On top of becoming a little bit more effective at a lot of things, and with many fewer problems.

(I could post more on the consequences of this, but I'm going for a different point)

Where she got...

a habit of learning new skills
better time-management habits
an awesome community
more initiative
the idea that she can change the world

I've only recently making a habit out of trying new things, and that's been going really well for me. Is there other low hanging fruit that I'm missing?

What cool/important/useful things has rationality gotten you?

So after reading SarahC's latest post I noticed that she's gotten a lot out of rationality.

More importantly, she got different things out of it than I have.

Off the top of my head, I've learned...

that other people see themselves differently, and should be understood on their terms (mostly from here)
that I can pay attention to what I'm doing, and try to notice patterns to make intervention more effective.
the whole utilitarian structure of having a goal that you take actions to achieve, coupled with the idea of an optimization process. It was really helpful to me to realize that you can do whatever it takes to achieve something, not just what has been suggested.
the importance/usefulness of dissolving the question/how words work (especially great when combined with previous part)
that an event is evidence for something, not just what I think it can support
to pull people in, don't force them. Seriously that one is ridiculously useful. Thanks David Gerard.
that things don't happen unless something makes them happen.
that other people are smart and cool, and often have good advice

On top of becoming a little bit more effective at a lot of things, and with many fewer problems.

(I could post more on the consequences of this, but I'm going for a different point)

Where she got...

a habit of learning new skills
better time-management habits
an awesome community
more initiative
the idea that she can change the world

That, and the rest, doesn't sound rational at all.

I agree, but I can't pinpoint what is wrong. There are other people here who went bonkers (no offense) thanks to the kind of rationality being taught on LW. Actually Roko stated a few times that he would like to have never learnt about existential risks because of the negative impact it had on his social life etc. I argued that "ignorance is bliss" can under no circumstances be right and that I value truth more than happiness. I think I was wrong. I am not referring to bad things happening to people here but solely to the large amount of positive utility associated with a lot of scenarios that force you to pursue instrumental goals that you don't enjoy at all. Well, it would probably be better to never exist in the first place, living seems to have an overall negative utility if you are not the kind if person who enjoys being or helping Eliezer Yudkowsky.

What are you doing all day, is it the most effective way to earn money or help solving friendly AI directly? I doubt it. And if you know that and still don't do anything about it then many people here would call you irrational. It doesn't matter what you like to do because whatever you value, there will always be more of it tomorrow if you postpone doing it today and instead pursue an instrumental goal. You can always do something, even if that means you'd have to sell your blood. No excuses there, it is watertight.

And this will never end. It might sound absurd to talk about trying to do something about the heat death of the universe or trying to hack the Matrix, but is it really improbable enough to outweigh the utility associated with gaining the necessary resources to support 3^^^^3 people for 3^^^^3 years rather than a galactic civilisation for merely 10^50 years? Give me a good argument of why an FAI shouldn't devote all its resources to trying to leave the universe rather than supporting a galactic civilization for a few years? How does this differ from devoting all resources to working on friendly AI for a few decades? How much fun could you have in the next few decades? Let's say you'd have to devote 10^2 years of your life to a positive Singularity to gain 10^50. Now how is this different from devoting the resources to support you for 10^50 years to the FAI trying to figure out how to support you for 3^^^^3 years? Where do you draw the line and why?

Give me a good argument of why an FAI shouldn't devote all its resources to trying to leave the universe rather than supporting a galactic civilization for a few years?

Now this looks like a wrong kind of question to consider in this context. The amount of fun your human existence is delivering, in connection with what you abstractly believe is the better course of action, is something relevant, but the details of how FAI would manage the future is not your human existence's explicit problem, unless you are working on FAI design.

If it's better for FAI ... (read more)

0CronoDAS15y

Why do you care what happens 3^^^^3 years from now?

9Perplexed15y

I can. You are trying to "shut up and multiply" (as Eliezer advises) using the screwed up, totally undiscounted, broken-mathematics version of consequentialism taught here. Instead, you should pay more attention to your own utility than to the utility of the 3^^^3itudes in the distant future, and/or in distant galaxies, and/or in simulated realities. You should pay no more attention to their utility than they pay to yours. Don't shut up and multiply until someone fixes the broken consequentialist math which is promoted here. Instead, (as Eliezer also advises) get laid or something. Worry more about about the happiness of the people (including yourself) within a temporal radius of 24 hours, a spatial radius of a few meters, and in your own branch of the 'space-time continuum', than you worry about any region of space-time trillions of times the extent, if that region of space time is also millions of times as distant in time, space, or Hilbert-space phase-product. (I'm sure Tim Tyler is going to jump in and point out that even if you don't discount the future (etc.) as I recommend, you should still not worry much about the future because it is so hard to predict the consequences of your actions. Pace Tim. That is true, but beside the point!) If it is important to you (XiXiDu) to do something useful and Singularity related, why don't you figure out how to fix the broken expected-undiscounted-utility math that is making you unhappy before someone programs it into a seed AI and makes us all unhappy.

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Q: What has Rationality Done for You?

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Q: What has Rationality Done for You?

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