NickiH comments on Rationality Quotes: April 2011 - Less Wrong

6 Post author: benelliott 04 April 2011 09:55AM

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Comment author: [deleted] 05 April 2011 07:18:41PM 68 points [-]

If you think that humans are nothing but Turing machines, why is it morally wrong to kill a person but not morally wrong to turn off a computer?

Your question has the form:

If A is nothing but B, then why is it X to do Y to A but not to do Y to C which is also nothing but B?

This following question also has this form:

If apple pie is nothing but atoms, why is it safe to eat apple pie but not to eat napalm which is also nothing but atoms?

And here's the general answer to that question: the molecules which make up apple pie are safe to eat, and the molecules which make up napalm are unsafe to eat. This is possible because these are not the same molecules.

Now let's turn to your own question and give a general answer to it: it is morally wrong to shut off the program which makes up a human, but not morally wrong to shut off the programs which are found in an actual computer today. This is possible because these are not the same programs.

At this point I'm sure you will want to ask: what is so special about the program which makes up a human, that it would be morally wrong to shut off the program? And I have no answer for that. Similarly, I couldn't answer you if you asked me why the molecules of apple pie are safe to eat and the those of napalm are not.

As it happens, chemistry and biology have probably advanced to the point at which the question about apple pie can be answered. However, the study of mind/brain is still in its infancy, and as far as I know, we have not advanced to the equivalent point. But this doesn't mean that there isn't an answer.

Comment author: NickiH 05 April 2011 08:10:20PM 16 points [-]

what is so special about the program which makes up a human, that it would be morally wrong to shut off the program?

We haven't figured out how to turn it back on again. Once we do, maybe it will become morally ok to turn people off.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 06 April 2011 11:34:22AM 5 points [-]

Because people are really annoying, but we need to be able to live with each other.

We need strong inhibitions against killing each other-- there are exceptions (self-defense, war), but it's a big win if we can pretty much trust each other not to be deadly.

We'd be a lot more cautious about turning off computers if they could turn us off in response.

None of this is to deny that turning off a computer is temporary and turning off a human isn't. Note that people are more inhibited about destroying computers (though much less so than about killing people) than they are about turning computers off.

Comment author: Laoch 05 April 2011 11:11:28PM 4 points [-]

Doesn't general anesthetic count? I thought that was the turning off of the brain. I was completely "out" when I had it administered to me.

Comment author: Kevin723 09 April 2011 05:01:14PM 4 points [-]

if i believed when i turned off my computer it would need to be monitered by a specialist or it might not ever come back on again, i would be hesitant to turn it off as well

Comment author: gwern 09 April 2011 06:09:02PM 2 points [-]

And indeed, mainframes & supercomputers are famous for never shutting down or doing so on timespans measured in decades and with intense supervision on the rare occasion that they do.

Comment author: Desrtopa 05 April 2011 11:17:56PM *  4 points [-]

It certainly doesn't put a halt to brain activity. You might not be aware of anything that's going on while you're under, or remember anything afterwards (although some people do,) but that doesn't mean that your brain isn't doing anything. If you put someone under general anesthetic under an electroencephalogram, you'd register plenty of activity.

Comment author: Laoch 06 April 2011 08:24:54AM 1 point [-]

Ah yes, didn't think of that. Even while I'm concious my brain is doing things I'm/it's not aware of.

Comment author: JohannesDahlstrom 07 April 2011 05:58:43PM 5 points [-]

Some deep hypothermia patients, however, have been successfully revived from a prolonged state of practically no brain activity whatsoever.

Comment author: Kevin723 09 April 2011 04:59:36PM 0 points [-]

as is your computer when its turned off

Comment author: David_Gerard 05 April 2011 11:14:56PM 0 points [-]

And people don't worry about that because it's one people are used to the idea of coming back from, which fits the expressed theory.