Jayson_Virissimo comments on David Deutsch on How To Think About The Future - Less Wrong

4 Post author: curi 11 April 2011 07:08AM

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Comment author: Jayson_Virissimo 11 April 2011 07:13:01PM *  2 points [-]

I'm thinking of the decline of Hellenist philosophy, especially the mathematical and empirical outlooks propounded by those such as Hypatia.

As far as I know, Hypatia was a Neoplatonist like Saint Augustine. What evidence do you know of that she had an empirical outlook?

Comment author: Desrtopa 11 April 2011 07:37:25PM 0 points [-]

That was a position she had attributed to her in a book in which I first read about her; I no longer remember the details and may have been mistaken.

In any case, the development of new technology and naturalistic knowledge based on empirical investigation and mathematics declined in the Dark ages. Whether I was mistaken about Hypatia's position in particular or not doesn't change the issue of whether an inferior tradition of intellectual investigation replaced a superior one.

Comment author: Vladimir_M 12 April 2011 02:40:53AM *  5 points [-]

[An empirical outlook] was a position she [Hypatia] had attributed to her in a book in which I first read about her; I no longer remember the details and may have been mistaken.

Was it by any chance Cosmos by Carl Sagan? His treatment of the topic is complete nonsense. (I understand Sagan is held in some respect by many people here, but he definitely wasn't above twisting facts and perpetuating myths to advance his agenda.) A good debunking of the whole "Hypatia as a rationalist martyr" myth can be found on Armarium Magnum.

Comment author: Desrtopa 12 April 2011 03:37:54AM 0 points [-]

I'm pretty sure I've never read Cosmos, so no, I don't think so. If it's a myth, he's not the only one perpetuating it.

Comment author: [deleted] 12 April 2011 03:41:51AM 2 points [-]

Read Cosmos? Once again I feel antiquated.

Comment author: Jayson_Virissimo 11 April 2011 08:25:26PM *  1 point [-]

That was a position she had attributed to her in a book in which I first read about her; I no longer remember the details and may have been mistaken.

In that case, I won't update my beliefs. Was that from a blurb in a science textbook by chance? I too have been the victim of false history from my science textbooks.

In any case, the development of new technology and naturalistic knowledge based on empirical investigation and mathematics declined in the Dark ages.

What time period are you referring to when you use the term Dark Ages? If you are referring to the Middle Ages, then I disagree that it is an example of a time when a superior intellectual tradition was replaced by an inferior one (at least in terms of natural philosophy/science).

Comment author: Desrtopa 11 April 2011 08:40:14PM 1 point [-]

It was a history book (popular, not academic,) and it's certainly possible that it was mistaken.

The limits of the Dark Ages are a matter of historical dispute, but for the purposes of this discussion, I suppose we could say about 5th to 11th century CE in Europe.

Comment author: Jayson_Virissimo 12 April 2011 12:31:56AM *  2 points [-]

The limits of the Dark Ages are a matter of historical dispute, but for the purposes of this discussion, I suppose we could say about 5th to 11th century CE in Europe.

I agree that the Dark Ages had an inferior intellectual tradition than the Hellenistic Period, since the dates you stipulated would exclude Aquinas, Ockham, and Scotus. On the other hand, I am at a loss trying to think of 11th century technologies that weren't equal to or superior than their 4th century counterparts.