Peterdjones comments on Three consistent positions for computationalists - Less Wrong

5 Post author: dfranke 14 April 2011 01:15PM

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Comment author: Peterdjones 15 April 2011 02:48:20PM 0 points [-]

One can only detect, as opposed to invent, what is already there. Being a NAND gate is not a physical property that is already there, nonetheless not everything is a NAND gate. There are constraints on what substrate can do what, but they are not fully determinate facts, for all that they are not imaginary.

Comment author: pjeby 15 April 2011 05:54:35PM *  1 point [-]

One can only detect, as opposed to invent, what is already there. Being a NAND gate is not a physical property that is already there,

Actually, "NAND Gate" is a term that we use to label something that is there --a tag we assign to patterns in the physical world that follow similar patterns of behavior to a representation we hold in our minds.

This is a bit like trees falling in the forest. If there is nobody there to label it a NAND gate, then it will still do the exact same thing... but there's no "NAND gate" there.

And, when the person does show up and label it, there's still no "NAND gate" there... there's just a label in that person's mind, saying, "that thing there is a NAND gate".

Not understanding this basic concept (that reality does not contain any labels, and has no "is-ness") leads to all sorts of confusion.

(Sadly, this kind of confusion is also the natural human state.)

Comment author: Peterdjones 15 April 2011 07:04:54PM 2 points [-]

If it's doing what a NAND gate does, it's a NAND gate. Reality does not come pre-labelled,but things also do not spring into existence just because someone has labelled them.

Comment author: pjeby 15 April 2011 09:49:01PM 0 points [-]

If it's doing what a NAND gate does, it's a NAND gate.

Only if you think that "X is Y" means something other than, "My brain has associated the label Y with the cluster of sensory experiences denoted by X".

Comment author: Peterdjones 16 April 2011 06:24:44PM 1 point [-]

I do: I think it means "X is a mind-independent object that would and should be labelled Y by an onlooker speaking my language". I believe there are stars and planets no one has ever seen, or had a chance to label as such, Don't you?

Comment author: pjeby 16 April 2011 09:19:19PM 1 point [-]

I think it means "X is a mind-independent object that would and should be labelled Y by an onlooker speaking my language"

I think you've missed the part where that is still a label in your mind, being attached to a cluster of sensory experiences.

I believe there are stars and planets no one has ever seen, or had a chance to label as such, Don't you?

In such cases, the sensory experience clusters you're labeling are memories associated with the labels "star" and "planet".

However, this has little to do with an X-is-Y identity. In order to say "X is Y", there has to be an X and a Y, and you are speaking only here of the hypothesized existence of various X's that you would then label Y.

In any event, this and this are relevant here, in case you've missed them.