XFrequentist comments on Build Small Skills in the Right Order - Less Wrong

90 Post author: lukeprog 17 April 2011 11:01PM

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Comment author: XFrequentist 18 April 2011 09:44:28PM 4 points [-]

Evil as techniques in and of themselves, or evil because of the larger goal of turning the trainee into a puppet?

Comment author: bogus 18 April 2011 10:25:32PM 3 points [-]

From what I've seen, the techniques are not really useful for anything other than turning 'trainees' into compliant cult members. Yes, the exercises lukeprog mentions in the OP can be used to improve self-control, but only by toning the routines down and approaching them cautiously. For instance, developing a "thousand-yard stare" is clearly unhelpful for someone who's trying to improve eir social skills, even though staring someone down is occasionally useful as a way of asserting dominance.

Comment author: [deleted] 18 April 2011 10:35:24PM 9 points [-]

The staring exercise seem to resemble simple exposure therapy. A lot of people have trouble making normal eye contact, so exposure therapy in this is likely to be a useful exercise for them.

Comment author: bogus 18 April 2011 10:57:02PM *  4 points [-]

Didn't David Gerard state that Scientologists develop a permanent thousand-yard stare as a result of OT-TR0/TR0? [1] My point is that this is a potential failure mode, i.e. not something that anyone actually interested in social skills would want.

[1] edit: apparently, it's common enough to be a stereotype, which is effectively what I meant. I wouldn't expect this to apply to every member of the church, much less everyone who has taken an intro course, but it still counts as a potential problem.

Comment author: David_Gerard 19 April 2011 04:14:14PM 6 points [-]

Not all, but enough do that it's stereotypical.

Comment author: [deleted] 18 April 2011 11:10:01PM 6 points [-]

Lukeprog is the obvious test case. If you are right that the the technique will give a person a thousand yard stare unless it is toned down, then it follows that Lukeprog currently has a thousand yard stare. So, does he?

Comment author: bogus 18 April 2011 11:49:01PM *  6 points [-]

Lukeprog may actually be a rather unusual test-case, since he's an atheist who was generally aware of what Scientology is about, yet he chose to approach the 'course' instrumentally. See the OP and his discussion with David Gerard. Regardless, even a moderate probability of such harmful effect ought to be of concern to those who would use the routine to improve their social skills.

Keep in mind that even techniques expressly designed for improving social skills can result in "social robots" when misapplied. And this is the first time I see de-facto hour-long staring contests (from a cult indoctrination course, no less) mentioned as a way to improve eye contact skills.

Comment author: rastilin 19 April 2011 04:09:30AM 3 points [-]

Keep in mind that even techniques expressly designed for improving social skills can result in "social robots" when misapplied. And this is the first time I see de-facto hour-long staring contests (from a cult indoctrination course, no less) mentioned as a way to improve eye contact skills.

Which techniques and can you link us?