BillyOblivion comments on The Bias You Didn't Expect - Less Wrong

92 Post author: Psychohistorian 14 April 2011 04:20PM

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Comment author: BillyOblivion 15 April 2011 01:57:03PM 9 points [-]

If you seriously believe that the majority of Americans believe that judges are relatively unbiased, you need to spend some time with a lower class of people. And I'm not talking about middle class white kids pretending to be rebels.

EVERY convict I know (with one exception, and I'm not sure about him, it's been 20 years since he was in jail) and everyone who has ever tried to argue a child custody case, lost a small claims case, or whatever thought the judge was personally and malevolently biased against them for all sorts of reasons ranging from their haircut to the phase of the moon.

It's really only the upper middle class and the rich who think that judges are mostly unbiased, although many do think it's for racial or cultural reasons, most of them just don't want to admit that they are guilty.

In another vein, most of us DO think about "big" questions at different times, this is why they are "big" questions--we don't wake up in the morning and in between the time we finish grinding the beans and taking the first drink of coffee decide to quit or job designing and printing t-shirts for underground punk bands, drop back into school and get a masters in business management and go work for a Management Consulting company.

It's the important decisions that you can't put off (direct pressure, quick clot or tourniquet?) that you have to make RIGHT FUCKING NOW that you often have to make cold, wet, tired and hungry. And no, you're not at your best.

You are right that we need to be aware of how various factors impact our cognition. I get really fucking grumpy. Ok, grumpier when I'm fasting. Or when I'm tired. I get MUCH less tolerant of stupidity or ignorance (which is bad when dealing with a precocious 4 year old). I've had to work on complex problems when really tired, and I know (or at least I think I do) where my limits are. These days I live well inside them just in case.

I also keep some GU in my bag, or an energy bar or some sort in my backpack at all times. Because it helps.

Comment author: Costanza 15 April 2011 03:44:32PM 10 points [-]

EVERY convict I know ... and everyone who has ever tried to argue a child custody case, lost a small claims case, or whatever thought the judge was personally and malevolently biased against them...

Well, there could be a bit of selection bias there. The people who were acquitted of criminal charges, who were awarded sole custody of their kids, and who won their small claims cases might have different views.

Comment author: BillyOblivion 15 April 2011 11:50:43PM 3 points [-]

Of course there is a selection bias there. I was commenting on the statement that "there's a broad social belief that the decision of judges are unbiased."

I think that among those educated at state and private colleges (as opposed to community colleges or no college at all) that is mostly true. I don't think that there are enough of those people to call it a "broad social belief".

Here's another highly politicized, mind killing example. There is the opinion that Europe and Australia have a broad social consensus against the death penalty, but time and time again polls show dramatic SUPPORT for putting certain classes of criminals to death.

In this case it is the BROAD SOCIAL CONSENSUS that is the flaw in the thinking. I mean, if this is about being less wrong, let's not just work on the comfortable wrong shit, let's face all of it.

The truth is that people aren't unbiased. Most don't even want to be. They just want other people to think they are.

Comment author: Costanza 16 April 2011 08:14:22PM 2 points [-]

I don't know that "the upper middle class and the rich" really think judges are unbiased. Judges are assumed to be biased in any case which directly affects their own interests, or in which the judge knows any of the parties. Also, judges in high-profile positions are often assumed to have political biases -- as is shown in the debates surrounding Senate confirmation hearings, as well as the recent judicial election in Wisconsin. Sometimes the judiciary in general is perceived to have a bias, such as being "soft on crime."

What is not usual is to think that judges are strongly biased by how long it has been since their last meal. A lot of commenters on this thread have expressed skepticism on this point, and I do too.