Unnamed comments on [SEQ RERUN] The Proper Use of Humility - Less Wrong
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This post does a good job of characterizing the good kind of intellectual humility (recognizing that you might be wrong and using that to better pursue the truth), but I think there is also a good kind of social humility (or "social modesty," if you prefer that label). Not asserting high status, or taking too much credit, or claiming privileges can be an important part of cooperating and working well with others.
For instance, people tend to see themselves as more responsible for their successes than their failures (self-serving attributions), which can be a problem if a group of people working together on a successful project all want to take personal credit for it. Social humility can help restrain that urge to take credit so that the group can work better together. And when someone from the group is talking with people outside the group, there's a temptation to try to reap a larger social benefit by claiming personal credit for the group's success. This can undermine the group's cohesiveness since they're now competing for credit and not just pursuing a shared goal together, and they can avoid that problem by cooperating on how they present themselves to the outside world and agreeing to share credit with the whole group (like a humble athlete who credits his teammates).
People often talk of being humbled by success, and part of what that involves is an impulse to share credit with the other people who contributed to your success ("I couldn't have done this without..."). Presenting yourself humbly, rather than as someone who's just better than everyone else, can make your success seem more accessible to other people and encourage them to follow in your footsteps. It also makes you seem more approachable, which is good for you too since if people are too intimidated to have open discussions with you then it can be hard for you to learn (there's a Feynman story about that).
There are bad forms of social humility, too, like the version that makes someone not want to excel because it'll just be awkward. But there is a good kind of social humility which is an important part of managing social relationships. And it's relevant to science too, as long as you include the parts of science that involve working collaboratively with other people or encouraging others to pursue truth.
Yeah; there is humility as a move in the status game, and then there is the humility of the fail-safe engineer. I think Eliezer was trying to draw a distinction between them not of 'good' and 'bad' in general, but rather that for the purpose of seeking truth, status game moves involving humility are often anti-correlated with getting the truth, and hence bad for truth-seeking.
I agree that Eliezer's post was focusing on the humility of the fail-safe engineer, and that he brought up the social kind of humility primarily to warn about ways in which it could undermine the truth-seeking kind of humility. But I think it's also worth considering the social kind of humility more on its own terms, and so I tried to describe how that can be valuable in its own right and also how it can sometimes serve the goal of truth-seeking rather than interfering with it.
To take one example of how the two kinds of humility can be complementary and closely related, it's good if other people are comfortable criticizing you. That has a truth-seeking goal (it allows you to identify and fix the flaws in your thinking) but it's a social practice, and both kinds of humility are useful for it. There's a general tendency that people are unwilling to openly second-guess or criticize people who are high status (like their superiors in a hierarchy), so it can help to avoid playing high status (social humility). Other people will be more willing to criticize you if it's clear that you're looking for your mistakes and want to find them so you can address them (intellectual humility). It will also help if you frequently give credit to other people, and portray yourself as someone who relies on other people's contributions to succeed (social humility), since that shows that you'll appreciate their contribution and not take it as a personal challenge. One reason why people are reluctant to criticize others is that they're afraid that they'll say something stupid, have their criticisms shot down, and lose status because of it; social humility (which is a cooperative way to play status games) can also help reassure people that they won't lose status (e.g., you won't pounce on the flaws in their criticism to reassert your status).
I agree so hard with this. I think that general humility is a pretty good strategy for getting people to cooperate with you. Never lie about what you think, but don't overtly grab status or you will set off people's alarms.
If you disagree, don't flaunt it or people will become defensive, and after that most people will treat arguments as soldiers and not listen to you in the future.
It also makes people want to work with you. On my robotics team I pretty much always solicit input on decisions, and aside from making it easier for me to think, and resulting (IMO) in better decisions, it also made people want me to lead them.
To the point that I ran for President unopposed.