johnclark comments on The Many Worlds of Hugh Everett - Less Wrong

22 Post author: johnclark 22 April 2011 03:26PM

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Comment author: Sniffnoy 23 April 2011 05:40:17AM *  3 points [-]

Firstly, thank you for stating what you meant by clock faces. You should really have stated that explicitly, though, as it's not a standard term. Also I had to read that twice to notice you were making a distinction between "clock faces" and "valid clock faces".

But this is simply wrong:

However the position of the clock hands where the short hand is exactly at 12 and the long hand is exactly at 6 is NOT included in the set of all valid clock faces, or just turn a clock upside-down and you will see a clock face that a proper clock will never display when it is right-side up. Thus the number of all possible clock faces must be have a higher cardinality than the number of valid clock faces or the number of points on a line; it is the same larger cardinality as the set of all 2 dimensional curves, which is the highest cardinality I can give a simple example of.

If S is strictly contained in T, and S is a finite set, then T necessarily has strictly larger cardinality than S. The same does not hold for infinite sets - this is just the old "Galileo's paradox"; Z has the same cardinality as N despite strictly containing it.

The Power Set of C would be the set of all subsets of paired numbers between 0 and 12, all the ways a pair of 2 real numbers can be arranged, all the ways 2 clock hands can be arranged not just the ways a properly operating clock will produce them.

Therefore the set of all possible clock faces has a higher cardinality than C the set of real numbers.

EDIT: Sorry, I wrote something wrong here before due to misreading! Thanks to steven0461 for catching the real problem.

You seem to be equivocating between C and the power set of C. C is in bijection with R, its power set is not. (And since C is in bijection with R, its introduction was really unnecessary - you could have just used the power set of R.) (You also seem to be using unordered pairs when you want ordered pairs, but that's a more minor issue.)

In short this has a number of errors (fortunately they seem to be discrete, specifically locatable errors) and I suggest you go back and reread your basic set theory.