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Eugine_Nier comments on What is Metaethics? - Less Wrong
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Clearly there's a group of people who dislike what I've said in this thread, as I've been downvoted quite a bit.
I'm not perfectly clear on why. My only position at any point has been this:
I see a universe which contains intelligent agents trying to fulfill their preferences. Then I see conversations about morality and ethics talking about actions being "right" or "wrong". From the context and explanations, "right" seems to mean very different things. Like:
"Those actions which I prefer" or "Those actions which most agents in a particular place prefer" or "Those actions which fulfill arbitrary metric X"
Likewise, "wrong" inherits its meaning from whatever definition is given for "right". It makes sense to me to talk about preferences. They're important. If that's what people are talking about when they discuss morality, then that makes perfect sense. What I do not understand is when people use the words "right" or "wrong" independently of any agent's preferences. I don't see what they are referring to, or what those words even mean in that context.
Does anyone care to explain what I'm missing, or if there's something specific I did to elicit downvotes?
In keeping with my analogy let's translate your position into the corresponding position on physics:
Do you still agree with the changed version? If not, why not?
(I never realized how much fun it could be to play a chronophone.)
Based upon my experiences, physical truths appear to be concrete and independent of beliefs and opinions. I see no cases where "right" has a meaning outside of an agent's preferences. I don't know how one would go about discovering the "rightness" of something, as one would a physical truth.
It is a poor analogy.
Edit: Seriously? I'm not trying to be obstinate here. Would people prefer I go away?
New edit: Thanks wedrifid. I was very confused.
Please explain what the word "concrete" means independent of anyone's beliefs and opinions.
You're not being obstinate. You're more or less right, at least in the parent. There are a few nuances left to pick up but you are not likely to find them by arguing with Eugine.