Cayenne comments on The 5-Second Level - Less Wrong

111 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 07 May 2011 04:51AM

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Comment author: roland 08 May 2011 04:19:45AM 8 points [-]

I know that I'll probably be downvoted again, but nevertheless.

Which in practice, makes a really huge difference in how much rationalists can relax when they are around fellow rationalists. It's the difference between having to carefully tiptoe through a minefield and being free to run and dance, knowing that even if you make a mistake, it won't socially kill you.

Sorry, but I don't feel that I have this freedom on LW. And I feel people moralize here especially using the downvote function.

To give a concrete example of Eliezer himself

http://lesswrong.com/lw/1ww/undiscriminating_skepticism/

I don't believe there were explosives planted in the World Trade Center. ... I believe that all these beliefs are not only wrong but visibly insane.

I politely asked for clarification only to be not only ignored but also downvoted to -4:

Eliezer, could you explain how you arrived at the conclusion that this particular believe is visibly insane?

http://lesswrong.com/lw/1ww/undiscriminating_skepticism/1t7r

On another comment I presented evidence to the contrary(a video interview) to be downvoted to -15: http://lesswrong.com/lw/1ww/undiscriminating_skepticism/1r5v

So when just asking the most basic rationality question(why do you believe what you believe) and presenting evidence that contradicts a point is downvoted I don't feel that LW is about rationality as much as others like to believe. And I also feel that basic elements of politeness are missing and yes, I feel like I have to walk on eggs.

Comment author: Cayenne 08 May 2011 06:04:15AM *  4 points [-]

I know that I'll probably be downvoted again, but nevertheless.

This is precisely the wrong way to start off a post like this, a very passive-aggressive tone.

Sorry, but I don't feel that I have this freedom on LW. And I feel people moralize here especially using the downvote function.

Are you certain that it isn't simply the tone of your posts?

So when just asking the most basic rationality question (why do you believe what you believe) and presenting evidence that contradicts a point is downvoted I don't feel that LW is about rationality as much as others like to believe. And I also feel that basic elements of politeness are missing and yes, I feel like I have to walk on eggs.

Also bitterness. I think that you would benefit a lot by rephrasing your questions in a less confrontational manner.

Eliezer, could you explain how you arrived at the conclusion that this particular believe is visibly insane?

could have become

Eliezer, I don't understand how you arrived at this conclusion, could you explain the reasoning behind it?

Soften up your posts.

I never downvote, as I think it's counterproductive. Others don't agree, but that is their right. Taking it personally is not the right approach.

Edit - please disregard this post

Comment author: roland 08 May 2011 07:12:32PM 1 point [-]

I would welcome factual criticisms of my posts instead of just attacking the "tone" you read in them.

Right, the posts could be softened up, but isn't it funny that you don't direct the same criticism to the ones who called a certain point of view insane? How confrontational is that?

Comment author: thomblake 09 May 2011 05:24:12PM 5 points [-]

I would welcome factual criticisms of my posts instead of just attacking the "tone" you read in them.

Characterizing helpful criticism as "attacking" is also not good.

Comment author: Cayenne 08 May 2011 07:52:23PM *  4 points [-]

I'm limited in my scope, I'm not going to follow links and criticize every single post. I happened to be reading yours, and thought that I might be able to help you with tone... others are probably better at dealing with actual content. If you would prefer me to not try to help you, let me know and I'll focus my efforts elsewhere.

Edit - please disregard this post

Comment author: roland 12 June 2011 08:40:36PM *  0 points [-]

Eliezer, could you explain how you arrived at the conclusion that this particular believe is visibly insane?

could have become

Eliezer, I don't understand how you arrived at this conclusion, could you explain the reasoning behind it?

Done. and done

Edit - please disregard this post

Sorry, I can't unread it.

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