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calcsam comments on Building rationalist communities: lessons from the Latter-day Saints - Less Wrong
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Well, I'm sure cognitive dissonance is the case for some -- probably a lot -- of people. But there's an alternative explanation for others.
True. Remember what I said in my previous comment, that "you would become more rational" -- the increase in faith is due to successful application of principles.
Not true. Remember, the above faith-growing effect is due to practicing the religion you're preaching. All major religions tap into a subset of a large group of techniques generally useful for improving life quality: forgiveness, prayer/meditation, belief that good deeds will ultimately be rewarded, discouragement from taking addictive substances, etc.
My argument, basically, is that fervently religious people can mistake a successful experience implementing universally good principles as a truth claim for a particular religious system.
Do you believe that this scenario is entirely impossible, or do you believe that at least some people would fall under this rubric?
I believe that some religious prescriptions are useful for many people, and that the community aspects of religion improve a lot of people's quality of life. But this is an entirely different matter from gaining a better understanding of the religions in question.
When I was a teenager, I was part of an online community based on a shared interest in fantasy and fantasy creatures. There was a strong community spirit, and a lot of close relationships among the members. There were also a lot of members who actually believed in the existence of said fantasy creatures, in a literal or spiritual sense, and some believed that they were themselves fantasy creatures, in a spiritual sense.
If a member of that community improved their life through the bonds with other members, and thus strengthened their own spiritual beliefs, do you think it would be fair to say that they gained a better understanding of fantasy creatures?
Framing the improvement in quality of life as an improvement in understanding of the belief system is either a falsehood, or, at best, a misuse of words.
Are you actually disagreeing with calcsam, or is this what they call a heated agreement?
I don't think he's "framing the improvement in quality of life as an improvement in understanding of the belief system" - he's saying that some religious people mistakenly do that:
I'm not really sure; if he's not actually asserting that people are gaining a better understanding of their religions, then I can't tell what it is he's claiming is there aside from cognitive dissonance.