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muflax comments on Seeing Red: Dissolving Mary's Room and Qualia - Less Wrong
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This and your recent other discussions about qualia and zombies are a great example of getting useful explanations thanks to trolls. It finally clicked for me that an algorithmic explanation doesn't actually "leave anything out" and that reductionism doesn't fail. I kept reading "Mind Projection Fallacy", but couldn't see how I was committing it. Thanks for your efforts, PJ!
I'm glad someone got some use out of it.
You (or someone else) could have gotten just as good of an explanation out of me by saying, "I don't understand how that's committing the MPF", so that's not really evidence in favor of trolls being valuable.
What's valuable is persistence, in that if you ask the question only once and stop saying, "yeah, but what I don't get about that is...", " wouldn't that then cause/mean...", etc., until you get a satisfactory answer.
Trolls are certainly persistent, but that doesn't mean the resulting conversation record will necessarily be of any use, alas.
Sure, in principle, but what really happened was that I read the first few explanations (mostly by Elizier and Dennett) and thought, "Nah, that doesn't really work. How am I projecting anything? You are all ignoring consciousness!". When others then mentioned the position, I automatically dismissed it. Only by seeing people stubbornly bring up really bad arguments against reductionism did I finally snap, "C'mon! I'm on your side, but that's just stupid. If $belief about qualia were true, how would you ever know? What's the different anticipation here? ... Waitaminnit, what am I anticipating here?" and that unraveled the whole thing in the end.
(Noted, however. Need to ask more.)