Religious doctrines have huge differences, or at least they seem so different to the believers as to result in persecution and terrorism and wars. The methods that big organized hierarchical religions employ to enforce conformity are...less so. There's no uniformity without a text. There's no text without a whole lot of big, obvious stupefying whoppers. In the context of organized religions, there are no stupefying whopping lies without otherwise brilliant apologists, performing amazing feats of logical contortion in order to justify and reconcile the stupid lies with which they are burdened.
By coming to LessWrong and courageously presenting himself as a believing Mormon and facing the criticism of his religion, calcsam is now at a crossroads. He can attempt to answer the criticism fairly and rationally. Or, he can defend the faith he has chosen, using the time-honored techniques of pipul and casuistry.
If calcsam wants to stay a member of the Mormon church in good standing, as authorized by the authorities in Salt Lake City, then he is on a leash held by those authorities. He is not at liberty to liberalize the doctrine, which might enable him (temporarily) to avoid facing the choice between fact and fiction. I hope he breaks from his leash. I don't want the discussion on LessWrong to let him pretend he can lengthen that leash, when in fact he can't. I don't want to let him say that Mormon people are nice and decent (which I would concede, in plenty of instances -- but not all) and therefore Joseph Smith was a prophet. I don't want to let him say that Mormonism is just a general instruction to be nice to people. It's not. I want him to feel choked by his own espoused doctrine. I didn't choose it for him. I want him to want to be free of it. I want him to choose to be free of it.
the time-honored techniques of pipul and casuistry.
I don't understand what you are saying here. Can you please elaborate? Since I do try and defend my faith you should be able to come up with examples of me doing whatever you are implying here, using those as examples would be helpful for me to understand what you see as wrong. I have reason to believe you have recently looked at a majority of my posts so you should be familiar with them, if not then any other example would be helpful.
Hello fellow Less Wrongians!
Given your comments on my organizing communities series, I get the feeling that many of you are wondering why:
I'm happy to hold discussions about any of these questions or related ones. However, I haven't responded to many comments on the main series of posts because:
I wanted to created this thread as a center for questions you might have about my faith. This is not an attempt to preach -- I would be perfectly happy not having a discussion purely about religion at all. But since there seem to be many comments, well, fire away.
Some basic facts: I am a student at Stanford. I am 22. I converted to Mormonism when I was 19. I used to be atheist/agnostic. I am very much a believer, not just in it for the social perks.
Well, as it is written, AMA (= Ask Me Anything)
(Thanks Kevin for the suggestion.)
Edit: Wow, there are a lot of comments. This has been a helpful chance to clarify my thinking. I hope you have learned something useful -- perhaps using the question is 'Is there anything surprising here that he said?'.
Edit 2: Here are some answers to repeated questions. Again, this really helped me distill and clarify myself and I've enjoyed the discussion.
Why do you believe? It's a combination of
I would estimate that before this all happened, my odds ratio was about 2000:1, and now it's about 1:10. I would ballpark the odds ratios of each of the above 3 events as ~12.5:1, ~25:1, and ~62.5:1. (I was considering likelihood but didn't think in that precise of terms at the time, so any concretization is open to charges of ex post facto. And these are still ballparks.)
There are lots of arguments against Mormonism on factual and historical grounds; there are also counterarguments which I feel pretty much balance them out. (The feeling of balancing each other out was contemporaneous.)
What things could make you consider leaving the faith?
Why do you think your conversion story is disappointing to many of us?
Several possible reasons:
[1] Specifically: