Annoyance comments on On Seeking a Shortening of the Way - Less Wrong

10 Post author: Annoyance 27 March 2009 05:11PM

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Comment author: Annoyance 28 March 2009 01:37:40PM 3 points [-]

"Yes, if there's something we know for sure increases rationality, we should be spending more time doing it instead of brainstorming new techniques"

We already know of a something. It is a very basic and rudimentary something, that we are all familiar with, and we all have the capacity to utilize. But most of you aren't doing it!

This has been discussed at OB repeatedly. We're carrying a lantern to look for fire.

"Compare alcoholism. The mundane solution to alcoholism is to say "Just stop drinking so much" - this seems in keeping with your diet metaphor. This mundane solution very rarely works, thanks to a particularly nasty form of akrasia. The Alcoholics Anonymous program, various anti-alcoholism drugs, and other "gimmicks" are much more effective."

Actually, no, they're not. AA is plagued by dropouts. What it's good at is getting the people who remain with it to believe it's helping them and say so. What it's terrible at is getting people off alcohol.

Comment author: AspiringRationalist 17 April 2012 03:46:21PM 2 points [-]

We already know of a something. It is a very basic and rudimentary something, that we are all familiar with, and we all have the capacity to utilize. But most of you aren't doing it!

I have no idea what something you are referring to. There are many things we already know about; what are you trying to point to?

Comment author: TheOtherDave 17 April 2012 04:45:07PM 0 points [-]

After over two years, it's unlikely he or she will read this comment.

Comment author: [deleted] 17 April 2012 03:57:41PM 0 points [-]
Comment deleted 29 March 2009 06:42:30AM [-]
Comment author: badger 29 March 2009 07:21:02AM *  6 points [-]

Summary of ~12 studies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effectiveness_of_Alcoholics_Anonymous

My interpretation of overall conclusions: Individuals who complete an AA program are not significantly different from those on other treatments. The studies that attempt to randomize treatments show worse results for AA. The two studies that mention adherence rates show AA has more drop-outs.


Best meta-study I could find: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2648497

Conclusion: AA is not significantly different other treatments.

Comment author: Matt_Simpson 29 March 2009 06:51:03AM *  5 points [-]

Penn and Teller

I'll let you judge the reliability of the evidence. However, true or not, you may be entertained. You have been warned.

Edit: some hard(er) data 1 min 50 sec into part 3