Rationality Quotes: June 2011 - Less Wrong

Rationality Quotes: June 2011

Wed, 01 Jun 2011 18:17:07 +1000

Submitted by Oscar_Cunningham • 4 votes • 469 comments

Y'all know the rules:

Please post all quotes separately, so that they can be voted up/down separately. (If they are strongly related, reply to your own comments. If strongly ordered, then go ahead and post them together.)
Do not quote yourself.
Do not quote comments/posts on LW/OB.
No more than 5 quotes per person per monthly thread, please.

Patrick on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-04T00:13:04.401604+10:00

If a process is potentially good, but 90+% of the time smart and well-intentioned people screw it up, then it's a bad process. So they can only say it's the team's fault so many times before it's not really the team's fault.

Steve Yegge

wedrifid on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-01T19:58:59.953248+10:00

If you want to beat the market, you have to do something different from what everyone else is doing, and you have to be right.

David Bennett

Risto_Saarelma on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-13T03:30:47.764238+10:00

The science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke remarked that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Clarke was referring to the fantastic inventions we might discover in the future or in our travels to advanced civilizations. However, the insight also applies to self-perception. When we turn our attention to our own minds, we are faced with trying to understand an unimaginably advanced technology. We can't possibly know (let alone keep track of) the tremendous number of mechanical influences on our behavior because we inhabit an extraordinarily complicated machine. So we develop a shorthand, a belief in the causal efficacy of our conscious thoughts. We believe in the magic of our own causal agency.

Daniel M. Wegner, The Illusion of Conscious Will

adamisom on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-24T04:04:08.628028+10:00

Of course. But I wonder what the word "we" is referring to in this sentence: "So WE develop a shorthand...". Didn't that strike anybody else?

Manfred on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-24T11:41:53.502549+10:00

Nobody here but us brains.

servumtuum on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-07T07:37:47.039442+10:00

The essence of wisdom is to remain suspicious of what you want to be true.

-Jon K. Hart

Document on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-07T22:18:38.251927+10:00

Without wanting to start a debate: that belief kept me in Mormonism for about two unnecessary years.

MixedNuts on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-07T22:26:32.789924+10:00

Okay, so the essence of wisdom is to be exactly as suspicious of everything as you should be, the first-pass approximation of wisdom is to remain suspicious of what you want to be true, and the second-pass approximation of wisdom is to be also suspicious of current beliefs you want to be untrue.

servumtuum on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-08T15:09:40.532844+10:00

MixedNuts, I take the quote as a mental "post-it note" reminder to be cognizant of the potential presence of confirmation bias-in both directions as you stated.

phaedrus on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T10:26:26.246107+10:00

‎"We apply fight-or-flight reflexes not only to predators, but to data itself." --Chris Mooney

RobinZ on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-07-02T03:32:10.151829+10:00

I just got that one. It's a remark on bias, isn't it?

MarkusRamikin on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-09T01:26:07.714493+10:00

"Attack and absorb the data that attack produces!"

-Tylwyth Waff in Heretics of Dune

(Hi. I'm new.)

NancyLebovitz on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-06T23:21:30.164870+10:00

If we wait for the moment when everything, absolutely everything is ready, we shall never begin. - Ivan Turgenev

RichardKennaway on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-01T21:08:54.897505+10:00

If you have ten minutes unscheduled and the phone isn't ringing, what do you do? What do you start?

Seth Godin

RichardKennaway on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-01T21:00:49.353906+10:00

If the fossil record shows more dinosaur footprints in one period than another, it does not necessarily mean that there were more dinosaurs -- it may be that there was more mud.

Elise E. Morse-Gagné

Oscar_Cunningham on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-01T18:20:21.264188+10:00

Just because you two are arguing, doesn't mean one of you is right.

Maurog: http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14222

chatquitevoit on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-25T03:21:12.138821+10:00

...or that both of you are wrong. Most times people argue, neither party actually has a fundamental grasp of their own position. If both did, it would either change the argument to an ENTIRELY different and more essential one, or dissolve it. And either of those options is of absolute gain for the participants.

Not that I can do anything about this aside from in my own actions, but it's annoying as hell sometimes.

Pugovitz on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-08T05:18:02.141984+10:00

"Try to learn something about everything and everything about something." ~Thomas H. Huxley

One of my favorite quotes; from the father of the word "agnostic."

NancyLebovitz on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-07T18:43:08.051001+10:00

It's the first follower who turns the lone nut into a leader.

Miller on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T09:52:54.132499+10:00

The megalomania of the genes does not mean that benevolence and cooperation cannot evolve, any more than the law of gravity proves that flight cannot evolve. It means only that benevolence, like flight, is a special state of affairs in need of an explanation, not something that just happens.

Pinker, The Blank Slate

Antisuji on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T03:41:47.614530+10:00

The great thing about this quote for me is that when I read it I can hear Pinker's voice saying it in my mind.

Alicorn on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-24T11:22:42.261150+10:00

"People argue against the existence of spirits and immaterial souls because they can't be explained by science. But if by definition these things are outside the scope of science, then you can't use science to prove or disprove them."

"Do these spirits and souls actually affect anything in the real world?"

"Sure."

"Then they're within the scope of science."

"Okay, let's say they don't interact at all with the world."

"Then why do we care?!?!"

--Calamities of Nature

beoShaffer on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-13T06:53:58.885686+10:00

Tom smiled. "Yes, Don't you like that idea?" "Liking it and having it be true aren't the same thing, Tom."

-Clive Barker, Abarat

RobertLumley on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T10:21:14.136532+10:00

"If in other sciences we should arrive at certainty without doubt and truth without error, it behooves us to place the foundations of knowledge in mathematics." – Roger Bacon

James_K on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T05:04:56.518619+10:00

It's even better when said by Leonard Nimoy.

RobertLumley on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T08:13:40.698534+10:00

Ah, so someone knows where I found this quote. :-)

RichardKennaway on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-04T00:16:06.628901+10:00

I see that I've quoted the following twice before within other comment threads, so I think it deserves a place here:

He who would be Pope must think of nothing else.

Usually cited as a Spanish proverb.

beoShaffer on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T10:40:04.252128+10:00

quoted text The art of concluding from experience and observation consists in evaluating probabilities, in estimating if they are high or numerous enough to constitute proof. This type of calculation is more complicated and more difficult than one might think. It demands a great sagacity generally above the power of common people. The success of charlatans, sorcerors, and alchemists — and all those who abuse public credulity — is founded on errors in this type of calculation.

Benjamin Franklin and Antoine Lavoisier, Rapport des commissaires chargés par le roi de l'examen du magnétisme animal (1784), as translated in "The Chain of Reason versus the Chain of Thumbs", Bully for Brontosaurus (1991) by Stephen Jay Gould, p. 195, http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin

jscn on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T10:26:59.943028+10:00

The intellect, as a means for the preservation of the individual, unfolds its chief powers in simulation; for this is the means by which the weaker, less robust individuals preserve themselves, since they are denied the chance of waging the struggle for existence with horns or the fangs of beasts of prey. In man this art of simulation reaches its peak: here deception, flattering, lying and cheating, talking behind the back, posing, living in borrowed splendor, being masked, the disguise of convention, acting a role before others and before oneself—in short, the constant fluttering around the single flame of vanity is so much the rule and the law that almost nothing is more incomprehensible than how an honest and pure urge for truth could make its appearance among men. They are deeply immersed in illusions and dream images; their eye glides only over the surface of things and sees "forms"; their feeling nowhere lead into truth, but contents itself with the reception of stimuli, playing, as it were, a game of blindman's buff on the backs of things.

Nietzsche, On Truth and Lie in an Extra-Moral Sense

NihilCredo on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T01:06:46.921425+10:00

A little long, but I don't see the possibility of a good cut:

“Other men were stronger, faster, younger, why was Syrio Forel the best? I will tell you now.” He touched the tip of his little finger lightly to his eyelid. “The seeing, the true seeing, that is the heart of it.

“Hear me. The ships of Braavos sail as far as the winds blow, to lands strange and wonderful, and when they return their captains fetch queer animals to the Sealord’s menagerie. Such animals as you have never seen, striped horses, great spotted things with necks as long as stilts, hairy mouse-pigs as big as cows, stinging manticores, tigers that carry their cubs in a pouch, terrible walking lizards with scythes for claws. Syrio Forel has seen these things.

“On the day I am speaking of, the first sword was newly dead, and the Sealord sent for me. Many bravos had come to him, and as many had been sent away, none could say why. When I came into his presence, he was seated, and in his lap was a fat yellow cat. He told me that one of his captains had brought the beast to him, from an island beyond the sunrise. ‘Have you ever seen her like?’ he asked of me.

“And to him I said, ‘Each night in the alleys of Braavos I see a thousand like him,’ and the Sealord laughed, and that day I was named the first sword.”

Arya screwed up her face. “I don’t understand.”

Syrio clicked his teeth together. “The cat was an ordinary cat, no more. The others expected a fabulous beast, so that is what they saw. How large it was, they said. It was no larger than any other cat, only fat from indolence, for the Sealord fed it from his own table. What curious small ears, they said. Its ears had been chewed away in kitten fights. And it was plainly a tomcat, yet the Sealord said ‘her,’ and that is what the others saw. Are you hearing?”

Arya thought about it. “You saw what was there.”

“Just so. Opening your eyes is all that is needing. The heart lies and the head plays tricks with us, but the eyes see true. Look with your eyes. Hear with your ears. Taste with your mouth. Smell with your nose. Feel with your skin. Then comes the thinking, afterward, and in that way knowing the truth.”

- George R.R. Martin, "A Game of Thrones"

MixedNuts on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T07:08:56.496571+10:00

What are the tigers with a pouch for their young? There seem to be no large carnivorous marsupials. A candidate is the marsupial lion (which is also striped), but it's been extinct for a while.

Edit: Ah, the thylacine ("Tasmanian wolf") was also known as the Tasmanian tiger. Yay for learning!

brazzy on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T19:18:14.947516+10:00

The quote is from a fantasy book. There are dragons in it...

Alicorn on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-04T03:36:26.361253+10:00

Yes, but "striped horses" have an obvious Earthly referent, and so it was not unreasonable to suppose that marsupial tigers might too (as indeed they have).

MixedNuts on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-06T16:37:17.677185+10:00

Yup. I don't know if that's what the terrible walking lizards are, or if they are that other kind of dragon of something in the same family.

Alicorn on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T07:10:05.483594+10:00

Thylacines, maybe.

MixedNuts on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T01:49:29.292531+10:00

This is beautiful, and inspiring. In fact, I predict LW will do better if we have an introductory post consisting of this quote and "That's our goal. Come on in and let's work on that." (would probably cause copyrighty troucle).

It's not a pure illustration, though. Maybe the others thought "Huh, that's just a regular cat. But if I say that the king might ordered me killed in the kind of way people die in Martin books. Better kiss some ass.".

Dorikka on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T13:57:01.270325+10:00

It's not a pure illustration, though. Maybe the others thought "Huh, that's just a regular cat. But if I say that the king might ordered me killed in the kind of way people die in Martin books. Better kiss some ass.".

I agree that the existence of this factor makes whether someone announces that it's a normal cat a poor indication of whether they actually realized such. However, I think it's reasonable to hypothesize that Syrio was looking for someone who both recognized that he was holding a normal cat and was willing to tell him such.

gwern on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T06:34:20.715417+10:00

Hrm. How would one tell it was not female? Was it sitting on the king's lap in a rather unlikely fashion?

Molybdenumblue on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T06:39:59.659085+10:00

Tomcats are usually stouter and more muscular, and have a more robust head shape? Also, they have pretty large and conspicuous balls.

gwern on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T10:06:02.295647+10:00

It's a large cat by stipulation.

Also, they have pretty large and conspicuous balls.

What, even when sitting nicely on someone's lap?

taryneast on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T22:33:11.273761+10:00

A large indolent cat is unlikely to actually sit on somebody's lap. In my experience they sprawl.

NihilCredo on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-05T04:10:54.395634+10:00

I think the "plainly" meant that his jewels were in plain sight.

Patrick on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-01T23:47:26.862538+10:00

I didn't do the engineering, and I didn't do the math, because I thought I understood what was going on and I thought I made a good rig. But I was wrong. I should have done it.

Jamie Hyneman

sketerpot on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-04T05:28:52.676788+10:00

Of course, that depends on how costly failure is, compared to the up-front analysis that would make failure less likely. I don't know who said "Fail fast, fail cheap," but it's a good counterpoint quote.

GabrielDuquette on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-01T23:25:20.483082+10:00

I cannot see that such inward convictions and feelings are of any weight as evidence of what really exists.

Charles Darwin

roland on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-05T03:28:05.444719+10:00

This quote is from a passage where Darwin is talking about religion:

At present the most usual argument for the existence of an intelligent God is drawn from deep inward conviction and feelings which are experienced by most persons. But it cannot be doubted that Hindoos, Mahomadans and others might argue in the same manner and with equal force in favour of the existence of one God, or of many Gods, or as with the Buddhists of no God....

Formerly I was led by feelings such as those just referred to, (although I do not think that the religious sentiment was ever strongly developed in me), to the firm conviction of the existence of God, and of the immortality of the soul... ...This argument would be a valid one, if all men of all races had the same inward conviction of the existence of one God; but we know this is very far from being the case. Therefore I cannot see that such inward convictions and feelings are of any weight as evidence of what really exists....

Source: http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/faith_vs_reason_debate.html

CSalmon on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-04T11:26:27.225345+10:00

Rin: What are clouds? I always thought they were thoughts of the sky or something like that. Because you can't touch them.

[ . . . ]

Hisao: Clouds are water. Evaporated water. You know they say that almost all of the water in the world will at some point of its existence be a part of a cloud. Every drop of tears and blood and sweat that comes out of you, it'll be a cloud. All the water inside your body too, it goes up there some time after you die. It might take a while though.

Rin: Your explanation is better than any of mine.

Hisao: Because it's true.

Rin: That must be it.

Katawa Shoujo

sketerpot on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-05T08:21:29.138157+10:00

For those who are interested: Katawa Shoujo is a visual novel currently in beta, which you can freely download on Windows, Mac OS, and Linux.

gwern on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-08T02:04:29.766756+10:00

You know, when I first heard about Katawa Shoujo, I was horrified. (Struck a little too close to home.) But if the rest of the writing is on par with that, I might have to play it.

sketerpot on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-08T06:27:43.376143+10:00

The writing isn't all shining gems of dialogue, but it's solidly entertaining, and not nearly as horrifying as the premise might make it sound. The various disabilities are treated more as inconvenient body quirks, rather than defining features; the characters are defined by their personalities and actions. If Katawa Shoujo has a message, that's it.

Anyway, I got a few very enjoyable hours out of it.

Nick_Roy on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T04:25:51.496001+10:00

The whole universe sat there, open to the man who could make the right decisions.

Frank Herbert, "Dune"

NancyLebovitz on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-26T23:26:06.039989+10:00

"Everyone thinks himself the master pattern of human nature; and by this, as on a touchstone, he tests all others. Behavior that does not square with his is false and artificial. What brutish stupidity!” -- Montaigne

Document on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-07-11T07:34:13.556949+10:00

"Man, what a pretentious quote. I'm filing it under typical mind fallac-- oh, yeah."

MichaelGR on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T04:35:34.103033+10:00

The way to maximize outcome is to concentrate on the process.

-Seth Klarman, letter to shareholders

Thomas on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-18T18:46:31.041684+10:00

Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them.

Laurence J. Peter

jaimeastorga2000 on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T01:58:08.089448+10:00

The bulk of political discourse today is purposefully playing telephone with facts in ways that couldn't be done in the Information Age if people just had the know-how to check for themselves. Comprehending complex sentences is something that can be done by first grade, and comprehending complex concepts and issues is without a doubt something better learned in math than in English, where one learns to obfuscate concepts and issues, and to play to baser emotions. Granted, one also learns to recognize and to defend against these tactics, but it still can't hold a candle to the "mental gymnastics" referenced above. Do you realize what the world looks like if you've got a background in math? Imagine signs reading DANGER: KEEP OUT are planted everywhere, but people purposefully and proudly ignore them, treating it as laughably eccentric to have learned more than half the alphabet, approaching en masse and dragging you with them.

~From the Math It Just Bugs Me page, TV Tropes

jasonmcdowell on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T07:23:48.701107+10:00

I wish there was no illness, I don't care if an old doctor starves.

Loā Hô, a Taiwanese physician and poet.

gwern on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-08T01:59:54.038994+10:00

What I really like about this quote is that I'm fairly sure the 'old doctor' is himself.

MixedNuts on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T07:37:14.768505+10:00

I care. If illness is abolished and a doctor of any age is starving, they can stay at my place and I'll feed them. Alternately, we could raise taxes slightly to finance government-mandated programs for training and reconversion of young doctors and early retirement for old doctors.

In other words: beware of though-mindedly accepting bad consequences of overall good policies. Look for a superior alternative first.

SilasBarta on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T08:01:56.543911+10:00

I agree. Unfortunately, the way it actually works is, "No, we can't allow your universal cure -- the AMA/[your country's MD association] is upset."

"No, we can't accept your free widgets -- that would cost our widgetmakers major sales."

"No, I don't want you to work for me for free -- that would put domestic servants out of jobs."

"No, I don't want to marry you -- that would hurt the income of local prostitutes."

"No, I don't want your solar radiation -- that would put our light and heat industries out of business."

Edit: Even better: "No, I don't want you to be my friend -- what about my therapist's loss of revenue?"

wedrifid on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T08:55:38.853801+10:00

"No, I don't want to marry you -- that would hurt the income of local prostitutes."

That is a brilliant line. Now I'm trying to work out how to create a circumstance in which to use it.

NihilCredo on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-05T04:18:47.203348+10:00

The worst thing about how frequenting prostitutes is no longer socially acceptable, even for males, is that there are so many quips and jokes that just don't work any more.

MixedNuts on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T08:10:59.367315+10:00

IRL it's the pharmaceutic labs that block it, not the docs.

That's one of the reasons why you try to mitigate bad side effects: so that people who'll suffer on net from the efffects will STFU.

Normal_Anomaly on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T21:12:51.312680+10:00

IAWYC. One quibble:

we could raise taxes slightly to finance government-mandated programs for...early retirement for old doctors.

If illness is abolished, what's the point of retirement?

NihilCredo on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-05T04:20:08.985262+10:00

To keep dusky sports pubs in business, of course.

endoself on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T07:42:29.676473+10:00

That can be a danger, but I think starvation is an obvious enough problem that people won't take this literally.

Document on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T07:44:04.167019+10:00

Starvation is an illness. (Or food dependency if you prefer.)

Alicorn on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T08:27:55.585906+10:00

It is the curse of thermodynamic jurisdiction.

MichaelGR on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T04:36:26.445269+10:00

"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war."

--WSJ article about Navy SEALs

khafra on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T23:12:07.179531+10:00

I wonder how many other people on LW heard this quote first while in the process of sweating in training; and how many other military aphorisms could be repurposed this way.

simplyeric on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-04T01:26:20.480447+10:00

It's an interesting point but exceedingly simplistic, more so these days than ever before.
What about "the more you think in training", or "the more you learn in training"? Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying the value of sweat (excerise, fitness, etc), I'm just saying it's not even close to the whole equation.

MarkMk1 on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-04T03:30:14.901366+10:00

Actually I think the full formula is "sweat saves blood, but brains save both". That's as rlevant today as when it was first used, which was in the British Army, around the time of the Crimean War. I think. I wasn't there.

bcoburn on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-04T03:34:10.603944+10:00

"Sweat" here is a standin for generic effort, whether it's actual physical sweat or not depends on what exactly you're training for.

Dreaded_Anomaly on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T07:27:21.986076+10:00

If you want to know the way nature works, we looked at it, carefully... that's the way it looks! You don't like it... go somewhere else! To another universe! Where the rules are simpler, philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy. I can't help it! OK! If I'm going to tell you honestly what the world looks like to the human beings who have struggled as hard as they can to understand it, I can only tell you what it looks like. And I cannot make it any simpler, I'm not going to do this, I'm not going to simplify it, and I'm not going to fake it. I'm not going to tell you it's something like a ball bearing inside a spring, it isn't. So I'm going to tell you what it really is like, and if you don't like it, that's too bad.

— Richard Feynman, the QED Lectures at the University of Auckland

gwern on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-08T02:01:26.030496+10:00

Reminds me of a Schneier quote that I like:

'Every time I write about the impossibility of effectively protecting digital files on a general-purpose computer, I get responses from people decrying the death of copyright.

"How will authors and artists get paid for their work?" they ask me.

Truth be told, I don't know. I feel rather like the physicist who just explained relativity to a group of would-be interstellar travelers, only to be asked: "How do you expect us to get to the stars, then?"

I'm sorry, but I don't know that, either.'

"Protecting Copyright in the Digital World", Bruce Schneier http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0108.html#7

homunq on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-29T09:16:17.635472+10:00

I am quite prepared to be told, with regard to the cases I have here proposed, as I have already been told with regard to others, "Oh, that is an extreme case, it would never really happen!" Now I have observed that the answer is always given instantly, with perfect confidence, and without examination of the details of the proposed case. It must therefore rest on some general principle: the mental process being probably something like this — 'I have formed a theory. This case contradicts my theory. Therefore this is an extreme case, and would never occur in practice'.

-Charles Dodgson (Lewis Carroll), relating to the possibility of strategically-induced Condorcet cycles in elections.

NancyLebovitz on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-10T04:38:57.875911+10:00

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance — that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

attribution unknown

I may have posted a little too fast-- I picked up the quote from a site which says it's a misquotation, and apt to be used to support dubious ideas.

On the other hand, contempt can come into play too quickly and reflexively, so I'm not deleting the quote.

MixedNuts on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-12T07:18:09.742527+10:00

Is this the absurdity heuristic, or a superset? If the later, what else is in the set? Maybe moral absurdity, and affiliation with outgroups (in particular, first encountering the idea during a heated debate or from someone lower-status than you).

NancyLebovitz on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-09T08:00:01.758085+10:00

"Three-fourths of philosophy and literature is the talk of people trying to convince themselves that they really like the cage they were tricked into entering."

-- Gary Snyder (bOING bOING #9, 1992)

I don't have a strong feeling about the accuracy of the percentage, but the general point sounds plausible.

Jayson_Virissimo on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T10:34:21.982226+10:00

In the study of reliable processes for arriving at belief, philosophers will become technologically obsolescent. They will be replaced by cognitive and computer scientists, workers in artificial intelligence, and others.

Robert Nozick, The Nature of Rationality

If you haven't read this book yet, do so. It is basically LessWrongism circa 1993.

chatquitevoit on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-25T03:29:30.052084+10:00

"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows."

1984, George Orwell (although I really shouldn't have to attribute this one)

Probably my favorite statement on rationality, it's so practical for launching off into every other sphere of thought - politics, ethics, theology, maths/physics, and, well, all else that follows.

soreff on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-17T10:28:39.103854+10:00

"Does it work?" is actually a much more important question than "Should it work?"

Druin Burch, "Blood Sports: Does a popular performance-enhancing subterfuge actually work" in Natural History 6/11/2011

paper-machine on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-07T22:49:07.932977+10:00

Math is cumulative. Even Wiles and Perelman had to stand on the lemma-encrusted shoulders of giants.

Scott Aaronson, "Ten Signs a Claimed Mathematical Breakthrough is Wrong", which is worth reading in its own right.

Patrick on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-07T13:45:19.154741+10:00

If things are nice there is probably a good reason why they are nice: and if you do not know at least one reason for this good fortune, then you still have work to do.

Richard Askey

RobertLumley on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T10:19:35.406927+10:00

"There always comes a time in history when the man who dares to say that two plus two equals four is punished with death … And the issue is not a matter of what reward or what punishment will be the outcome of that reasoning. The issue is simply whether or not two plus two equals four." – Albert Camus, The Plague

wedrifid on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-01T19:57:43.352791+10:00

A little knowledge that acts is worth infinitely more than much knowledge that is idle.

-- Kahlil Gibran

MichaelGR on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T04:37:39.043543+10:00

"At one of our dinners, Milton recalled traveling to an Asian country in the 1960s and visiting a worksite where a new canal was being built. He was shocked to see that, instead of modern tractors and earth movers, the workers had shovels. He asked why there were so few machines. The government bureaucrat explained: “You don’t understand. This is a jobs program.” To which Milton replied: “Oh, I thought you were trying to build a canal. If it’s jobs you want, then you should give these workers spoons, not shovels.”

-Milton Friedman story

James_K on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T05:07:42.503832+10:00

For the record, I'm pretty sure this story is apocryphal, though that doesn't take away from it's value as a rationality quote.

Document on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-08T10:53:19.054924+10:00

Seems like more of a libertarianism quote to me.

MichaelGR on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-09T03:29:12.486209+10:00

It can be that, but I think it also illustrate the importance of understanding people's real goals and intentions and not assuming that they are what they appear to be at first glance.

brazzy on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T19:09:01.455888+10:00

A few points come to mind:

Presumably they also wanted a canal and there may well be an optimum point where you maximize some sort of combined utility
Jobs programs, even those that create nothing particularly useful, are about giving people a sense of worth and accomplishment, otherwise you could just hand out money. Obviously futile make-work activities like the one suggested achieve the opposite of that and are, indeed, often deliberately used to punish and humiliate people.

Mercy on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-07T09:51:22.568912+10:00

"They" is the tricky bit there. Presumably some people wanted a canal, and some people other people wanted jobs, and for that matter presumably some people wanted money to go to the construction company who've got an opening for a government liaison consultant coming up in five years time. There's little reason to think the equilibrium is welfare maximising.

MarkusRamikin on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-26T17:31:03.056196+10:00

Probably, but Brazzy's explanation without adding all those other variables fits well enough to show why Milton's statement might have been missing something important. The point of a jobs program is that society pays some cost (of not using the most optimal method, i.e. more machines and fewer workers) in order to keep its members out of the unemployment trap. To propose, even as a deliberate reductio ad absurdum, that this would go just as well with spoons rather than shovels is not rationality, it's Spock-logic.

Now I'm quite willing to suppose that he understood the usefulness of such programs as an economist and overall had good reasons to see them as not worth it, or that some other measure would do better, but that particular quote fails to show it.

CharlesR on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-06T11:09:01.432497+10:00

Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for nonsmart reasons.

-- Michael Shermer

Oscar_Cunningham on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-07T08:23:16.431232+10:00

Sometimes smart people believe weird things because they're actually, y'know, true.

MixedNuts on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-07T01:42:28.533573+10:00

The same Shermer who publicly recognizes that his widely-repeated "this is your brain on cryonics" is crap but won't even post a half-hearted correction? Yes. Yes they do.

advancedatheist on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T06:13:16.448553+10:00

From Space Viking, by H. Beam Piper:

"Young man," Harkaman reproved, "the conversation was between Lord Trask and myself. And when somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. What do you mean, Lord Trask?"

Source:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/20728/20728-h/20728-h.htm

Eliezer_Yudkowsky on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-09-02T19:53:03.118470+10:00

Space Viking has got to be one of the leading "way more rational than its title sounds like" books out there. I wonder if Piper actually named it that or if it was some bright-eyed publisher.

Jonathan_Graehl on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-05T12:40:05.844239+10:00

No man has wit enough to reason with a fool.

Proyas (fictional character - author: R. Scott Bakker)

Eliezer_Yudkowsky on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-09-02T19:57:56.813738+10:00

<mental model of Michael Vassar says>This strikes me as a nerdism. If you don't find less intelligent people easier to manipulate, you must be working on sympathetic models of them instead of causal ones. I expect that experience would cure this, and after a few months of empirical practice and updating on the task of reasoning with fools, you would find it was actually easier to get them to do whatever you wanted - if you could manage to actually try a lot of different things and notice what worked, instead of being incredulous and indignant at their apparent reasoning errors.</Vassar>

Yvain on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-09-02T20:36:34.806895+10:00

Upvoted the original for reference to Prince of Nothing series. And upvoted this comment for the terms "sympathetic model" and "causal model", which is one of those times that having the right word for a concept you've been trying to understand is worth a month of trying to untangle things in your head.

...although now I'm not sure whether I should upvote Eliezer or Michael Vassar. It seems kind of unfair to deny Michael an upvote just because the specific instantiation of his algorithm that said this happened to be running on Eliezer's brain at the time.

thomblake on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-09-02T23:37:13.499268+10:00

having the right word for a concept you've been trying to understand is worth a month of trying to untangle things in your head

On a related note, it's a programming cliche that 90% of development time is trying to think up the right names for things.

Jonathan_Graehl on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-09-03T07:01:24.089408+10:00

I agree with the Vassar-homonculus, but I took as the point that "reasoning with" may be the wrong tool - not that reasonable practice will fail to suggest the most effective hooks for manipulating the unreasonable fool.

lessdazed on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-09-03T07:39:41.836114+10:00

I agree. The quote wasn't "No man has wit enough to manipulate a fool."

lessdazed on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-09-02T20:13:59.917508+10:00

do whatever you wanted

Not for the reasons wanted.

Jonathan_Graehl on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-09-03T07:04:12.787939+10:00

Also a great addition to a psychological-thriller villain: he not only insists on compliance, but for the "right" reasons.

lessdazed on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-09-03T07:15:43.619108+10:00

Which will be explained to the hero in due course while he is caught in the villain's trap, with escape impossible. Impossible I say!

Vladimir_Nesov on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-09-03T07:37:06.224597+10:00

But there is no independent existence of hero's personality apart from their mind, so the hero doesn't just have the memes designed by the villain, the hero is villain's memes.

Solvent on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-09-02T20:17:24.029863+10:00

My new goal in life is having Eliezer Yudkowsky respect me enough that he makes comments like this for me.

loqi on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T04:54:15.180431+10:00

If you can't think intuitively, you may be able to verify specific factual claims, but you certainly can't think about history.

Well, maybe we can't think about history. Intuition is unreliable. Just because you want to think intelligently about something doesn't mean it's possible to do so.

Jewish Atheist, in reply to Mencius Moldbug

CuSithBell on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T05:51:48.233016+10:00

I would think this an irrationality quote? "Fuzzy" thinking skills are ridiculously important. "Intuition" may be somewhat unreliable, but in certain domains and under certain conditions, it can be - verifiably - a very powerful method.

shokwave on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-07T01:42:50.131237+10:00

I took as being rationality in the sense that it follows the form: "just because you want to action x does not mean that action x is possible", which is always a good reminder.

CuSithBell on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-10T01:02:43.031400+10:00

That's so, but it's also true that just because you're personally not good at X, that does not mean that X is impossible or worthless.

Will_Euler on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-13T06:47:50.841766+10:00

"When he is confronted by the necessity for a decision, even one which may be trivial from a normal standpoint, the obsessive-compulsive person will typically attempt to reach a solution by invoking some rule, principle, or external requirement which might, with some degree of plausibility, provide a "right" answer....If he can find some principle or external requirement which plausibly applies to the situation at hand, the necessity for a decision disappears as such; that is, it becomes transformed into the purely technical problem of applying the correct principle. Thus, if he can remember that it is always sensible to go to the cheapest movie, or "logical" to go to the closest, or good to go to the most educational, the problem resolves to a technical one, simply finding which is the most educational, the closest, or such. In an effort to find such requirements and principles, he will invoke morality, "logic," social custom, and propriety, the rules of "normal" behavior (especially if he is a psychiatric patient), and so on. In short he will try to figure out what he "should" do.

-David Shapiro, Neurotic Styles

MixedNuts on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-14T06:47:42.230608+10:00

Please post anything there might be on how to deal with that. I'm exactly like that, and my rules often break down and then I'm unable to decide.

I've known someone else like that. She made rules about food because it made it easier to decide what to eat.

Could you also post the cites on why "obsessive-compulsive"? Neither I nor the other person have an OCD diagnosis or seem to match the criteria. Any OCD LWers want to chip in?

MattFisher on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-24T00:16:44.201381+10:00

I try to avoid over-optimising on considered principles. I am willing to accept less-than-optimal outcomes based on the criteria I actually consider because those deficits are more often than not compensated by reduced thinking time, reduced anxiety, and unexpected results (eg the movie turning out to be much better or worse than expected).

'Simple Heuristics That Make Us Smart' indicates most decisions are actually made by considering a single course of action, and taking it unless there is some unacceptable problem with it. What really surprised the researchers was that this often does better than linear recursion and stacks up respectably against Bayesian reasoning.

So my answer is, "make random selections from the menu until you hit something you're willing to eat." :)

Will_Euler on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-15T04:28:07.023947+10:00

This quote was written in 1965 by a psychoanalyst, so I don't even know if they had the same diagnostic criteria for Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder that they do today. He's talking about "styles" of behavior. Based on a little searching, it seems to me that a preoccupation with rules is characteristic of what is called Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder. As is so often the case, there's a broad spectrum from quirky behavior to personality disorder.

What makes it a disorder is if it is interferring with your enjoyment of life. It is irrational to choose according to arbitrary rules when doing so makes you miss out on outcomes that are preferable but require you going outside of your rules.

A little searching on the Internet says the treatment for the disorder is talk therapy. It's possible that could work.

I would say first of all you have to recognize when living according to rules is making your life better and when living based on rules is boxing you in. Having rules can make decisions easier, but it can make you miss out on a lot of life. Seek feedback from friends and family members about areas in which you might be too rigid. Make sure you tell them you really want honest feedback. Then take baby steps to break out of routines. Doing so will also build your courage.

Accept that it's OK to make mistakes. Failure is a great source of learning. If you have an attitude that says, "I am going to make mistakes," then you might not feel so much anxiety about making a less-than-optimal choice. (I recommend the book The Pursuit of Perfect by Tal Ben-Shahar. I learned a lot about avoiding perfectionism from that book.)

You might find that something like an improv comedy class makes you more spontaneous and able to see how rules for behavior aren't as fixed as you might think they are. People get by and thrive by doing things totally differently from how you do, and you might like a different way better, if you gave yourself the chance.

Try something that you wouldn't have ever thought you'd do before. See how it doesn't feel that bad. (Again, you might start small: browse through the section of the bookstore where you would normally never be caught dead.)

Be courageous. Be spontaneous. Have fun.

MixedNuts on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-15T16:36:36.679731+10:00

The problem is not to muster the courage to break rules, it's to decide what to do when you don't have relevant rules.

MarkusRamikin on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-15T20:20:28.096324+10:00

"She made rules about food because it made it easier to decide what to eat" - This actually works for such a person? Interesting, I think a lot of people have the opposite problem. I wish I found it easy to follow my own rules.

NancyLebovitz on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-15T20:31:42.904570+10:00

Tentative hypothesis: some people start with the intention of making rules they'd want to follow, and others don't. The first set might find themselves with a rule they don't follow, but the second assuredly will.

This goes beyond the temperamental difference between people who find rules a reassuring way of limiting choices and those who find rules an irritant at best.

How much care do you put into crafting your rules?

chatquitevoit on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-25T03:02:55.488100+10:00

This is a valid attempt to deal with conflicting stimuli from the world - to create standards to which you adhere consciously because you don't trust your intuitions to motivate you rationally in the environment with which you must interact. And really, such attention is partially what it means to be conscious/human - to audit your actions 'from the outside' instead of merely reacting. And with today's bizarre and skewed 'food environment', as it were, this becomes VERY necessary, especially for people with a predilection for analyzing their own behavior even in such supposedly mundane (but really fundamental) things as food consumption.

MixedNuts on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-17T19:17:18.121700+10:00

The rules were supposed to approximate her actual tastes, but more rigid and outright made up when she was unsure if she liked something. I don't think it would work if she suddenly decided she disliked peanut butter.

MixedNuts on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-07T01:17:18.082569+10:00

When shall we cross ourselves?

Whenever we are about to perform a good deed, or when we see or feel that we might commit a sin.

Carlos Gimenez, Barrio (Context: children in a religious institution are answering catechism questions)

This sounds like a great way to prime yourself. Crossing yourself has all the wrong connotations, but a gesture meaning "I choose good." should help in general. (I like the fist-over-heart Battlestar Galactica salute.)

Having a whole set of gestures, along with pithy quotes, should prove even more effective.

Leonhart on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-07T09:08:22.237159+10:00

Their insignia was a hand poised with fingers ready to snap.

ETA: Or is that reserved for "I choose whatever they aren't expecting"?

Unnamed on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T05:11:09.871406+10:00

Violence is not a way of getting where you want to go, only more quickly. Its existence changes your destination. If you use it, you had better be prepared to find yourself in the kind of place it takes you to.

-hilzoy

Dorikka on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T14:04:49.683253+10:00

This is confusing. Does your use of violence change your intended destination, or does it just exert certain optimization pressures on future world-states, as do all of your other actions?

brazzy on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T19:34:26.159231+10:00

Read the (long) linked-to article from which the quote stems. Basically the point is that using violence to achieve a goal teaches the people involved that violence is an effective, legitimate way to achieve goals - and at some later point they will invariably have conflicting goals.

wedrifid on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T20:47:46.052445+10:00

See also: Live by the sword, die by the sword.

AdeleneDawner on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T04:58:49.059451+10:00

I'm not sure there's a useful distinction between those two options. Your future selves are part of the future world-states that it's exerting pressure on, and not exempt from that pressure.

wedrifid on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T09:01:42.914943+10:00

If you use it, you had better be prepared to find yourself in the kind of place it takes you to.

Including such destinations as "Not being the unwilling sex toy of the big bald guy while in prison". Although if you also don't use 'fraud' you may find yourself not in jail in the first place - but it's not always so simple. It also leads you to the destination "still having your food, possessions, dignity and social status in your schoolyard despite having no control of whether you wish to be subject to that environment".

Unnamed on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T14:15:37.740846+10:00

I didn't read the quote as a blanket opposition to violence. It's a warning about one thing to consider before you choose violence.

I also didn't read the quote as only being about violence. It also makes a more general point about means and ends. When you're considering an action in pursuit of a goal, you should consider the action in its own right and try to predict where it is likely to lead. Don't settle on an action just because it seems to fit with the goal. This is especially relevant when you consider using violence, coercion, manipulation, or dishonesty for a noble purpose, but it also applies more generally.

Will_Sawin on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T13:02:19.160054+10:00

Of course, sometimes one is prepared to find yourself in the kind of place it takes you to. The quote seems to already acknowledge this possibility.

wedrifid on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T15:10:07.033068+10:00

The quote seems to already acknowledge this possibility.

It does, hence allowing for me to phrase the counterpoint within the quote's own framework.

AdeleneDawner on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T07:53:44.238942+10:00

If you're really being taught that violence is the answer, why the hell haven't you dropped the class yet?

fubarobfusco on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T12:15:58.422511+10:00

That lesson is pretty frequently homeschooled, sad to say.

Thomas on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-04T20:59:24.824965+10:00

We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us.

George Orwell / saw on Discovery Channel

Tyrrell_McAllister on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-05T06:21:10.696806+10:00

From wikiquote

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Alternative: "We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us."

In his 1945 "Notes on Nationalism", Orwell claimed that the statement, "Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf" was a "grossly obvious" fact.

Notes: allegedly said by George Orwell although there is no evidence that Orwell ever wrote or uttered either of these versions of this idea. They do bear some similarity to comments made in an essay that Orwell wrote on Rudyard Kipling, when quoting from one of his poems. Orwell did write, in his essay on Kipling, that the latter's "grasp of function, of who protects whom, is very sound. He sees clearly that men can only be highly civilized while other men, inevitably less civilized, are there to guard and feed them." (1942)

Morendil on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-09-02T21:00:00.086552+10:00

It’s not exactly a 'he said she said' argument. It’s a 'top experts on the subject predict significant methane emissions from melting permafrost, but some guy on my blog says they must be wrong' argument.

-- John Baez on Melting Permafrost

gwern on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-14T11:51:08.573809+10:00

"...I thank my fortune for it,
My ventures are not in one bottom trusted,
Nor to one place; nor is my whole estate
Upon the fortune of this present year:
Therefore my merchandise makes me not sad."

--Antonio, The Merchant of Venice, Act 1 Scene 1. I have found this quote coming to mind recently apropos the recent Bitcoin price swings.

EvelynM on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-15T01:17:13.540912+10:00

"Three passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind." Bertrand Russell

RobertLumley on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T10:19:11.656892+10:00

I'm new to LW (Well, I've been reading Eliezer's posts in order, and am somewhere in 2008 right now, but I haven't read many of the recent posts) so these may have been posted before. But quote collecting is a hobby of mine and I couldn't pass it up.

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." – Albert Einstein

Jayson_Virissimo on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T10:56:14.235386+10:00

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."

I very much dislike Einstein quotes that have nothing to do with physics or mathematics. You don't have to be an Einstein to know a false dichotomy when you see one. What about living your life as if some things are miracles and some things aren't like most people who have ever lived? Surely, if most people have done it, then it is possible.

Also, welcome to Less Wrong.

RobertLumley on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T11:07:21.990471+10:00

Well for what it's worth, I don't think he means it literally. Or at least so exactly. My interpretation is that he is saying that you must accept a rational basis and explanation for everything, or believe that nothing can be explained - you must accept that the laws of physics apply to every one and everything, and that there are no mysterious phenomena, or you must deny the laws of physics and believe everything is mystical.

And thanks, it's a great blog. I've learned so much reading Eliezer's work. Well, perhaps learned isn't the best word. Realized may be more appropriate.

Normal_Anomaly on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T10:41:43.689018+10:00

Thank you for laying out that interpretation. I thought for years (perhaps because of the first context I saw it in) that it presented a choice between seeing the beauty in everything or not seeing it anywhere. Your interpretation makes much more sense.

Desrtopa on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T01:01:04.050390+10:00

Many, perhaps most people, appear to believe in separate magisteria of ordinary, explainable things, and unassailable supernatural mysteries.

RobertLumley on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T08:14:20.794269+10:00

But that doesn't make it rational to live that way...

Desrtopa on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T09:07:58.018248+10:00

True, but he didn't say there were only two rational ways of looking at the world.

I don't think the interpretation you gave is what he meant, anyway. Based on his writings about his own religious beliefs, Einstein would almost certainly have categorized himself as being one who saw everything as miraculous. Just because we accept that something is real and follows the same rules as all other known real things doesn't mean we can't have a sense of wonder over it.

summerstay on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-16T08:26:02.238804+10:00

I think he's saying that there are only two ways to live consistent with the world as it is, and they are identical except that the second includes the sense of awe or wonder. It's a miracle (a wonder, unexplained) that anything exists at all. Religion that believes only some things are miracles is not either of the ways he supports.

NancyLebovitz on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-06T23:20:41.087829+10:00

You can check on whether quotes have been posted already by using search for the site.

dvasya on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T03:42:14.873427+10:00

Future possibilities will often resemble today's fiction, just as robots, spaceships, and computers resemble yesterday's fiction. How could it be otherwise? Dramatic new technologies sound like science fiction because science fiction authors, despite their frequent fantasies, aren't blind and have a professional interest in the area.

...

This may seem too good to be true, but nature (as usual) has not set her limits based on human feelings.

K. Eric Drexler, Engines of Creation Chapter 6

gjm on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T03:54:54.905644+10:00

When I read the first sentence quoted above, I assumed it was intended ironically.

Robots, spaceships and computers resemble yesterday's fiction? Hardly, except in so far as their fictional counterparts resemble the robots, spaceships and computers already in existence when the fiction was written. (And, to a lesser extent, in so far as people making new robots, spaceships and computers are inspired by the science fiction they've read.)

fubarobfusco on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T12:27:12.197267+10:00

Heinlein's spaceships relied on human beings doing orbital calculations on slide-rules and calling out orders to one another to direct the ship — "Brennschluss!" — to avoid disaster. Today, there are serious projects to move ground automobiles out of direct human control as a safety measure.

Asimov's robots, and the renegade computers on Star Trek, dealt with conflicting evidence so poorly that they could be permanently broken by receiving malicious data. Today's software engineers would call that a denial-of-service attack or "query of death", and fix it.

The real world has much higher standards for safety and reliability than fiction does!

orthonormal on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T08:14:07.153283+10:00

Or, to look at it less derisively, fiction needs its computer bugs and exploits to have simple narrative explanations.

advancedatheist on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T06:29:02.316292+10:00

Murray Leinster, who had a few patents to his name, anticipated the web and increasingly capable search engines in his visionary story, published in 1946, titled " A Logic Named Joe."

Pavitra on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T08:42:10.780713+10:00

You have to cherry-pick examples to make seeming correlations like that work. If, say, a particular author had several such coincidences, then that might be different, but as far as I can tell, for the most part science fiction predicts science in about the same way that fortune cookies predict lottery numbers.

taryneast on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T22:44:13.712465+10:00

If, say, a particular author had several such coincidences

Jules Verne

Pavitra on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T10:41:23.490244+10:00

Verne is a fairly strong example. He was reasonably popular in his time, so he didn't become famous only because of correlation-in-hindsight. We might ask whether he's an outlier or just the tail of the bell curve, but I strongly suspect that what actually happened was that later engineers were consciously influenced by his fictional designs, much like with William Gibson and the modern Internet.

This suggests that fiction-future correlation is largely determined by technical plausibility, which in turn suggests that we may be able to predict in advance which science-fiction predictions are most likely to come true. However, it occurs to me that we do a lot of this last already on this website (cryonics, uploading, nanotech, AI, computronium, ...) so I'm not sure if this quite counts as an "advance" strength of the theory.

(Other predicted technologies I don't remember seeing so much around here: Dyson spheres, space elevators, ... hm. Not that many, actually. Augmented reality and bionic implants are likely only transitional, but will probably have at least a few years of massive popularity at some point.)

taryneast on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-04T18:07:30.389806+10:00

Dyson spheres are unlikely. They use too much physical matter to create. Ringworlds are slightly more likely.

Space elevators are awesome though. We should do that :)

Still waiting on the ability to grow nanotubes long enough, though... we're getting there. We can build them long enough to turn into thread - but proper long-filament nanotubes are the only thing (that we know of so far) that will be strong enough for the elevator ribbon.

dvasya on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-10T03:10:38.309135+10:00

'Dyson sphere' is a very broad term encompassing several distinct types of design, including very light ones.

Space elevator is awesome, but there exist much more clever alternative designs that have substantially lower requirements for material strength, as well as geographical positioning - this is also a huge issue with the original space elevator design. It is a beautiful idea, but that doesn't mean we should cling to it and ignore all other proposals :)

chatquitevoit on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-25T03:24:42.343037+10:00

The most feasible iteration of a Dyson sphere would probably be the least dense, which would have great influence on the ways they could be used, and that makes them less likely because they are less commercially useful. Still, it could happen.

taryneast on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-27T19:56:16.890850+10:00

Ok - I hadn't seen any info on that kind. Yes I agree, it could happen - though I suspect that by the time we get to the stage where we could - we'll probably have invented something even cooler/useful :)

TrE on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T16:40:00.890325+10:00

Teach a man to reason, and he'll think for a lifetime.

-- Phil Plait

Patrick on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-04T22:43:39.489786+10:00

I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.

Bruce Lee

MixedNuts on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-06T23:39:24.893399+10:00

Myth busted.

MarkusRamikin on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-16T01:47:25.010639+10:00

Noooot the same thing.

Owen_Richardson on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-11T09:37:49.454545+10:00

"Ahh, there's no such thing as mysterious."

~Strong Bad, from sbemail 140 (Probably not originally intended in a rationalist sense.)

RichardKennaway on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-01T21:16:43.555756+10:00

One should not pursue goals that are easily achieved. One must develop an instinct for what one can just barely achieve through one's greatest efforts.

Unsourced; attributed to Albert Einstein.

wedrifid on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-01T21:35:51.508712+10:00

Or, I could work out what I want and achieve that? There is even a time to focus on a goal over another purely because it is easier.

cousin_it on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-26T08:31:35.620471+10:00

When I try to learn stuff, I sometimes get good results from the opposite approach: instead of doing the hardest thing, do the easiest thing that counts as progress. In other words, instead of grabbing the highest rung I can reach, I grab the rung I can reach comfortably. Then I take my time to absolutely conquer that rung with perfect technique and control, doing many many repetitions. Then move on to the next.

Advantages of this approach: it's easier, less jerky and more methodical, I can spare attention for ironing out any mistakes in the basics... And most importantly, it feels like I have more "momentum". When my workouts or training sessions look like this, random events are much less likely to derail my schedule of leveling up.

simplyeric on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-07T03:57:50.681811+10:00

This doesn't seem rational. One must develop an instinct for what one really needs to/wants to/should achieve, and judge whether maximium effort (which I assume would be required to achieve the barely-achievable) is worth the return on that investment.

RichardKennaway on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-07T04:47:42.840890+10:00

If you're not putting in maximum effort, you're leaving utility on the table.

simplyeric on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-08T03:46:12.779044+10:00

But if you put out maximum effort, you can leave longevity and/or quality on the table. Silverbacks, pitchers, office workers, day-to-day-life, running, eating... Short term maximum effort might detract from long-term maximum utility. The cost/benefits analysis is at times subjective. "Utility" can mean different things to different people. "Utility", as I interpret in a Rationalist context has a very specific almost "economic" meaning. But you can choose to reduce effort and not push the envelop, and go home, have dinner, relax, and enjoy your life. Some people might refer to that as utility, others as low hanging fruit, still others as a healthy balance.

darius on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-01T18:59:19.502685+10:00

O shame to men! Devil with devil damned / Firm concord holds; men only disagree / Of creatures rational

-- Milton, Paradise Lost: not on Aumann agreement, alas

MixedNuts on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-01T19:25:23.373966+10:00

Yeah, but humans only exist of creatures rational.

sgeek on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T07:56:48.345408+10:00

We're working on that.

dvasya on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T03:28:39.106514+10:00

Sorry for length, but this a nice sketch on the role of rationality in science :)

A glossary for research reports

Scientific term (Actual meaning)

It has long been known that. . . . (I haven’t bothered to look up the original reference)

. . . of great theoretical and practical importance (. . . interesting to me)

While it has not been possible to provide definite answers to these questions . . . (The experiments didn’t work out, but I figured I could at least get a publication out of it)

The W-Pb system was chosen as especially suitable to show the predicted behaviour. . . . (The fellow in the next lab had some already made up)

High-purity || Very high purity || Extremely high purity || Super-purity || Spectroscopically pure . . . (Composition unknown except for the exaggerated claims of the supplier)

A fiducial reference line . . . (A scratch)

Three of the samples were chosen for detailed study . . . (The results on the others didn’t make sense and were ignored)

. . . accidentally strained during mounting (. . . dropped on the floor)

. . . handled with extreme care throughout the experiments (. . . not dropped on the floor)

Typical results are shown . . . (The best results are shown)

Although some detail has been lost in reproduction, it is clear from the original micrograph that . . . (It is impossible to tell from the micrograph)

Presumably at longer times . . . (I didn’t take time to find out)

The agreement with the predicted curve is excellent (fair) || good (poor) || satisfactory (doubtful) || fair (imaginary) || . . as good as could be expected (non-existent)

These results will be reported at a later date (I might possibly get around to this sometime)

The most reliable values are those of Jones (He was a student of mine)

It is suggested that || It is believed that || It may be that . . . (I think)

It is generally believed that . . . (A couple of other guys think so too)

It might be argued that . . . (I have such a good answer to this objection that I shall now raise it)

It is clear that much additional work will be required before a complete understanding . . . (I don’t understand it)

Unfortunately, a quantitative theory to account for these effects has not been formulated (Neither does anybody else)

Correct within an order of magnitude (Wrong)

It is to be hoped that this work will stimulate further work in the field (This paper isn’t very good, but neither are any of the others in this miserable subject)

Thanks are due to Joe Glotz for assistance with the experiments and to John Doe for valuable discussions (Glotz did the work and Doe explained what it meant)

C. D. Graham, Jr., Metal. Progress 71, 75 (1957) (actual source)

MixedNuts on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T06:47:06.250961+10:00

Funny, but I don't think it is the criticism of science it seems to be. Some items just point out that papers are formal, like

It is suggested that || It is believed that || It may be that . . . (I think)

Yeah, that's what it means. What's your point? (Well, it is useful at face value for people who don't understand formal language, but it's not trying to be.)

Others look like criticism but aren't, like

. . . accidentally strained during mounting (. . . dropped on the floor)

Yes, it's an amusing way of phrasing it, but there's noting wrong with the fact or with the phrasing - the meaning gets across!

Some do show scientists obfuscating problems, like

Typical results are shown . . . (The best results are shown)

but none of them are new. It has long been known that scientists tend to ignore negative results and the like. The most reliable values are those of Ben Goldacre.

Also,

Correct within an order of magnitude (Wrong)

Is just plain correct within an order of magnitude. If I compute the mass of the sun from a weight of a rock in my hands and the shadows of two sticks, being correct within an order of magnitude is incredibly precise.

dvasya on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T01:44:58.721284+10:00

I don't think this was intended as a criticism of science... ;)

Apprentice on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-04T00:07:41.676533+10:00

It might be argued that . . . (I have such a good answer to this objection that I shall now raise it)

My favorite - I do this all the time.

It is clear that much additional work will be required before a complete understanding . . . (I don’t understand it)

Yeah, this one's familiar too. There's a long-ass section in my thesis that basically ends with this. So much data - so little sense.

Konkvistador on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-07-02T16:36:57.016759+10:00

“It seems that those who legislate and administer and write about social policy can tolerate any increase in actual suffering so long as the system does not explicitly permit it.”

-Charles Murray

Nornagest on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-07-02T17:47:46.007024+10:00

This reads as a little applause-lighty for my taste, to be honest. It's really easy to claim that the arbiters of social policy are blind to actual suffering, and not much harder to spin that into an appeal for your particular ideology, which by virtue of its construction or unusual purity or definition of "actual suffering" of course doesn't have these problems.

If a quote on policy would be equally at home heading a libertarian or a socialist or an anarcho-primitivist blog, does it really constrain our anticipations about policy to any meaningful extent?

Konkvistador on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-07-03T00:50:47.828061+10:00

If a quote on policy would be equally at home heading a libertarian or a socialist or an anarcho-primitivist blog, does it really constrain our anticipations about policy to any meaningful extent?

I read it as cautioning us to resist the temptation to unquestioningly accept nice sounding policy as good policy.

Also any quotes that couldn't be read as potentially applicable by a large swath of the political spectrum might trigger blue-green tribalism feelings and kind of defeat the spirit of the no mind killer rule.

gjm on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-09-02T20:46:33.233597+10:00

The point isn't to constrain our anticipations about policy; it's to constrain our anticipations about policy-makers. To get actual policy anticipation-control, you need to apply it in a specific context where you know more about the sort of policy the people in question would favour if they (openly) didn't care about actual suffering.

RobertLumley on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T10:20:54.881377+10:00

“Life is a tragedy for those who feel, and a comedy for those who think.” – Jean de la Bruyère

chatquitevoit on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-25T03:18:09.921369+10:00

And what does this make it for those of us who do both?

wedrifid on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-01T20:15:24.567775+10:00

Verberationes continuabunt dum animus melior fit. ("The beatings will continue until morale improves")

(My presentation of the quote constitutes an assertion that there is an insight here useful for navigating the world of tribal politics, hence the relevance.)

bogus on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-01T20:54:01.315133+10:00

Politics are, as it were, the market place and the price mechanism of all social demands - though there is no guarantee that a just price will be struck; and there is nothing spontaneous about politics- it depends on deliberate and continuous activity.

--Bernard Crick

Jayson_Virissimo on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T10:51:59.044127+10:00

What is a "social demand"? By what method could we determine how much of a good is "socially demanded"?

fubarobfusco on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T12:37:57.087706+10:00

Justice, for instance. Can one person be reliably counted upon to measure how much justice he or she has received? Probably not. But political processes do work out various means for delivering more or less justice. These means appear to have something to do with the demands of various people. The market analogy is of course not perfect.

Aryn on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-02T19:00:02.139949+10:00

Justice, at least the way I've heard it used, is very much revenge without the stigma.

brazzy on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T20:17:55.722083+10:00

Criminal justice only if you tune out the rehabilitation aspect. Civil justice only if you tune out everything except punitive damages (which don't exist in many jurisdictions).

Theist on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-04T14:44:49.057697+10:00

There is a lot to be gained by delegating to a central authority the responsibility of maintaining a credible threat of retaliation.

Document on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T15:27:47.822155+10:00

<dentist> children are scum
<dentist> can't we figure out a way to get rid of kids but keep the human race alive
<dentist> we need to get on that shit

-- QDB, on immortalism

sketerpot on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-04T06:02:11.568956+10:00

Man, that site is a funny time sink. Not the best source of rationality quotes, but there are a few that sort of count.

Greatgreen: I'm going to fail :(

NumberGuy: think positively

Greatgreen: I'm going to fail :)

rlsmith on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T00:52:41.784053+10:00

"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness."

--George Santayana, Quoted by Carl Sagan in Contact, Chapter 14 "Harmonic Oscillator", page 231

RichardKennaway on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T23:00:21.699310+10:00

Ick.

What, in this metaphor, corresponds to fidelity and happiness in the way that skepticism corresponds to chastity? Is Santayana's idea that we should search long for The Answer, but having found it, we should turn off our skepticism, stop thinking, and sink into the warm fuzzies of faith? It reminds me of the sea squirt that eats its own brain when it has found a comfortable spot to live and no longer needs it.

Eneasz on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-03T08:41:03.736050+10:00

Interestingly, I really like this quote about skepticism, even though I strongly dislike its fetishization of sexual inexperience.

knb on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-05T19:52:00.282679+10:00

How is it a fetish and not a legitimate personal value? And the part relevant to skepticism seems totally off to me. We should never sacrifice skepticism for "fidelity" to an idea.

Endovior on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-25T08:24:38.076253+10:00

Faith is not enough, for faith is blind by nature. Life needs insight. It is the dead, and the dying, that allow themselves to be led.

--Eve Online: Chronicles

Risto_Saarelma on Rationality Quotes: June 2011

2011-06-15T17:15:38.734556+10:00

Now that's the general solution to a problem that all the programmers in the world are out there inventing for you, the general solution, and nobody has the general problem.

Charles H. Moore