lessdazed comments on Rational Romantic Relationships, Part 1: Relationship Styles and Attraction Basics - Less Wrong

48 Post author: lukeprog 05 November 2011 11:06AM

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Comment author: lessdazed 06 November 2011 06:27:05AM 3 points [-]

"Calmly", "by punishing the punishment", "to the substance of the matter regardless of punishment".

People punishing norm violations aren't the villains of their own narratives, they think they're responding rationally.

Comment author: steven0461 06 November 2011 07:21:04AM *  6 points [-]

My purpose in using the word was not to contrast good us to bad them, but rather to emphasize that the action Prismattic disagrees with (that of withholding one's opinion) is a move forced by an incentive that needn't itself have been set (and shouldn't have been set if Prismattic is right that opinion withholding is bad), and so it's more reasonable for Prismattic to complain to the incentive setters than to the incentive followers. Does that make sense?

The "people aren't villains of their own narratives" line always struck me as a little glib. Villains believe they're not villains, but does that mean they falsely believe they're some particular thing that truly is not a villain, or does it merely mean they correctly believe they're some particular thing that they falsely believe is not a villain (fail to label as villainous)? In my intuition these are two different things and the saying uses the plausibility of the disjunction of the two things to suggest only the first thing. Clearly villains usually gain some sort of satisfaction from their role in the world, perhaps even moral satisfaction, but that's not the same thing as there having been a good-faith effort to be a hero. I don't know, I may just be confused here.

Anyway, what matters is who's a villain in God's narrative (in the atheist sense of God). :)

Comment author: lessdazed 06 November 2011 07:28:43AM 1 point [-]

it's more reasonable for Prismattic to complain to the incentive setters than to the incentive followers.

I disagree with this, at least it's not at all obvious.

does that mean

It means that at least on LW, they would also describe their behavior as rational (in certain contexts where reason is seen as an enemy, not everyone would be claiming the title "rational").

these are two different things and the saying uses the plausibility of the disjunction of the two things to suggest only the first thing.

Clever.

Comment author: wedrifid 06 November 2011 07:42:04AM 3 points [-]

People punishing norm violations aren't the villains of their own narratives, they think they're responding rationally.

Which does not necessarily mean we should change the way we treat them. They can tell themselves whatever story they like. And by punishing them appropriately they will either change their behavior or, perhaps most importantly, those witnessing the punishment will avoid the behavior that visibly invokes community disapproval.