bipolar comments on Reasons for being rational - Less Wrong

57 Post author: Swimmer963 01 July 2011 03:28PM

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Comment author: bipolar 28 June 2011 04:55:56AM 2 points [-]

If you have more to say as to your list of what the real problems are I'd be interested in reading.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 28 June 2011 07:56:16AM 5 points [-]

I believe that a lot of what's wrong with the world comes from taking governments too seriously. The historical argument for atheism-- the damage done by religion-- applies at least as strongly to governments.

This doesn't mean I think it necessarily makes sense for individuals to conspicuously ignore a government which is dangerous to them. To put it mildly, there are group effects.

Comment author: bipolar 29 June 2011 06:26:00PM 1 point [-]

Taking governments too seriously in what sense? Adopting values implicit in in government rhetoric? Following laws? Give some examples if you'd like.

Also, are you considering the counterfactual here? Without religion there's atheism. What happens when people don't take governments too seriously? It's actually unclear to me that religion does more harm than good; I would guess that the harm done apparently done by religion is largely due to general human nature and that there are upsides of organic community so that on balance it's a wash.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 01 July 2011 01:58:33AM 7 points [-]

I noticed that, while there used to be religious wars, for the most part these days, what gets people to die for no good reason is nationalism.

I'm not sure what the best attitude is-- I don't think we can dispense with government these days, but on the other hand, I don't think law-abidingness and patriotism should be put very high on the list of virtues.

Comment author: bipolar 01 July 2011 03:06:58AM 1 point [-]

I noticed that, while there used to be religious wars, for the most part these days, what gets people to die for no good reason is nationalism.

Don't both of religion and nationalism fall under the broader umbrella of tribalism? It's plausible to me that without either one there would be some other sort of tribalism with adverse effects on global welfare. People might not die as a result but I don't think that there's reason to think that the aggregate negative effect would be smaller.

Now, if what replaced them was some sort of ideology of the type "equal consideration for all" that filled the vaccum left over by politics/religion then that would be different. I have little sense for how likely this would be.

I'm not sure what the best attitude is-- I don't think we can dispense with government these days, but on the other hand, I don't think law-abidingness and patriotism should be put very high on the list of virtues.

What sort of law-abidingness do you have in mind here? Obeying military drafts?

Comment author: AlexM 30 June 2011 02:30:21PM 1 point [-]

It's actually unclear to me that religion does more harm than good

For quick and dirty empirical evidence, look at latest european poll Do countries on the top of table with least belief in God, spirit or life force behave more rationally?