army1987 comments on Reasons for being rational - Less Wrong

57 Post author: Swimmer963 01 July 2011 03:28PM

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Comment author: ialdabaoth 04 July 2013 09:31:05PM 1 point [-]

This evidently didn't bother me a few years ago when I wrote this post, but I want to say that if all of your interactions with women are like this, you are doing something wrong.

I say this with no small amount of cynicism and bitterness: according to the appropriate roles and goals spelled out by our current society, he is doing it exactly right.

And remember that rejecting those roles and goals takes a LOT of effort, which means it takes a lot of motivation. Some people can find that motivation internally (they see a better way for their lives to be), others find it externally (they just aren't equipped to fit into the roles their culture wants to assign them), but most people don't find it at all.

It may be unpleasant to realize that most people don't particularly care about your thoughts or feelings capability or even your well-being except instrumentally, but it is true. And even with all the strides that feminism and gender equality have made against the stereotype you quoted, it's still entrenched enough that merely saying "you are doing something wrong" is inadequate. You have to explain to people why they should see you as a human being, and what seeing you as a human being actually looks like, or they will simultaneously fail to understand why they should, and fail to understand how they are not doing so already.

As a "young female with higher-then-average physical attractiveness" (if I remember your self-description accurately), you may be used to not having to spell that out in face-to-face interactions. Susceptible men will likely tend to implicitly understand "you are doing something wrong" as "you will not unlock the puzzle-box that has ownership of me as the prize". But here, you have the advantage of not being able to rely on that misunderstanding; I would strongly recommend that you practice using it.

Comment author: [deleted] 04 July 2013 11:10:52PM *  1 point [-]

And remember that rejecting those roles and goals takes a LOT of effort

What? It takes me more effort to follow them than to go my own way. YMMV, but remember not to generalize from one example.

EDIT: The "others find it externally (they just aren't equipped to fit into the roles their culture wants to assign them)" suggests you did already understand that. (Still a weird way to put it IMO -- "refraining from smoking is hard, but certain people are motivated to do that because they don't like tobacco"? -- but still.)

Comment author: ialdabaoth 05 July 2013 10:44:05AM 0 points [-]

Sorry, I have trouble phrasing things normally. It's one of the reasons I often fall back on metaphor.