fubarobfusco comments on Secrets of the eliminati - Less Wrong

93 Post author: Yvain 20 July 2011 10:15AM

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Comment author: scav 20 July 2011 02:39:25PM 5 points [-]

Hmm. Unless I'm misunderstanding you completely, I'll assume we can work from the example of the "red" qualium (?)

What would it mean for even just the experience of "red" to be ontologically fundamental? What "essence of experiencing red" could possibly exist as something independent of the workings of the wetware that is experiencing it?

For example, suppose I and a dichromatic human look at the same red object. I and the other human may have more or less the same brain circuitry and are looking at the same thing, but since we are getting different signals from our eyes, what we experience as "red" cannot be exactly the same. A bee or a squid or a duck might have different inputs, and different neural circuitry, and therefore different qualia.

A rock next to the red object would have some reflected "red" light incident upon it. But it has no eyes and as far as I know no perception or mental states at all. Does it make sense to say that the rock can also see its neighbouring object as "red"? I wouldn't say so, outside the realm of poetic metaphor.

So if your qualia are contingent on the circumstances of certain inputs to certain neural networks in your head, are they "ontologically fundamental"? I'd say no. And by extension, I'd say the same of any other mental state.

If you could change the pattern of signals and the connectivity of your brain one neuron at a time, you could create a continuum of experiences from "red" to "intuitively perceiving the 10000th digit of pi" and every indescribable, ineffable inhuman state in between. None of them would be more fundamental than any other; all are sub-patterns in a small corner of a very richly-patterned universe.

Comment author: fubarobfusco 21 July 2011 06:08:09PM 2 points [-]

qualium

"Quale", by the way.

Comment author: Hul-Gil 21 July 2011 09:12:58PM 0 points [-]

How do you know? Do you know Latin, or just how this word works?

I'm not doubting you - just curious. I've always wanted to learn Latin so I can figure this sort of thing out (and then correct people), but I've settled for just looking up specific words when a question arises.

Comment author: fubarobfusco 21 July 2011 11:19:03PM 0 points [-]