lessdazed comments on Those who aspire to perfection - Less Wrong
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Does that mean people for whom rationalism is a near-terminal goal that cannot become a lost purpose? Do you use "rationalism" somewhat like the way Charlie Sheen might use "winning", as "rationalism" is often used here?
If yes and no, then to what end rationalism?
If yes and yes, then you value that for someone who, in relation to various things, wants them, that they have as a cherished thing achieving their own wants? Is people having such a nearly-terminal goal a correspondingly deep value of yours, or is it more instrumental? Either way, is coming to value that one of the smaller changes I could make to turn my values towards consistency (and how much more change than coming to consciously value it would I have to do if it is not emergent from my existing values)? If so, at what level would I be valuing that, presumably the same as you do, no? It isn't enough to have a passing devotion to wanting that, that which I want, I should get it?
If this is unclear or badly off-target, let it indicate the magnitude of my confusion as to what you meant.
This comes to mind.
Eliezer obviously wouldn't be telling them to shut up and be evil; he'd be intending to tell the person he'd infer he was talking to that, and if this "rare person" couldn't learn about Eliezer's actual intent by inferring the message Eliezer had intended to communicate to who Eliezer ought to have thought he was talking to, the person would be rarely dense.
So that part of Eliezer's message is not flawed, so I'm not sure why you thought it needed addressing.
This assumes I'm reading this post correctly, something I'm not confident of.
Maybe in some way, but not in the way that you interpret it to mean... I emphasize the importance of noticing lost purposes, which is central to both epistemic and instrumental rationality. Elsewhere in this thread I re-wrote the post without the cool links, if you're interested in figuring out what I originally meant. I apologize for the vagueness.
As for your second critique, I'm not claiming that Eliezer's message is particularly flawed, just suggesting an improvement over current norms of which Eliezer's original message could be taken as partially representative, even if it makes perfect sense in context. That is, Eliezer's message isn't really important to the point of the post and can be ignored.
The very first factor in the very first chapter of The Art of War is about the importance of synchronous goals between agents and represented. It is instrumental in preserving the state. It is also instrumental in preserving the state (sic).
Even so,
A metaphor.
The iron is hot, some feel fear.
You aren't though.
You're expressing belief in a possible downside of current practice. We can say, unconditionally and flatly, that it is a downside, if real, without it being right to minimize that downside. To your credit, you also argue that effects on the average influenced person are less valuable than is generally thought, which if true would be a step towards indicating a change in policy would be good.
But beyond that, you don't articulate what would be a superior policy, and you have a lot of intermediary conclusions to establish to make a robust criticism.
Correct, I was imprecise. I'm listing a downside and listing nonobvious considerations that make it more of a downside than might be assumed.