MatthewBaker comments on Rationality Quotes August 2011 - Less Wrong

3 Post author: dvasya 02 August 2011 08:24PM

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Comment author: samineru 04 August 2011 06:29:29PM 0 points [-]

This may be fatally sophomoric, but I really don't understand what is so particularly hard to understand about the theory of evolution. Differentiation, Inheritance, Mutation, and Fitness produce a feedback loop of increasing Fitness. The particulars of it's implementation on Earth are far more complicated, but the underlying theory is beautiful in it's elegance and simplicity.

Comment author: MatthewBaker 04 August 2011 08:17:36PM *  2 points [-]

If i asked the question "why did humans form a hibernative monophasic sleep cycle? most people would say because at night we slept in caves and shelter to escape the dark and we evolved to sleep that way" even though that's not the case with out genes at all. People often attribute things that are entirely behavioral to evolutionary reasons and that's what i think the quotes trying to illustrate.

Baby's start out sleeping Polyphasically but soon adapt a natural night/day cycle due to the humans around them (mirror neurons, reinforcement, lighting). Now i dont know if this proposed experiment would-be very feasible or ethical but most people discount it because they "understand" evolution.

Comment author: Jordan 05 August 2011 01:01:44AM 4 points [-]

I would discount polyphasic sleep as being natural on grounds of my current knowledge of anthropology. As far as I know there are no known human cultures that engage in polyphasic sleep (not counting biphasic sleep). That seems like pretty strong evidence that it isn't behavioral, it's physiological, which in turn suggests (but doesn't guarantee) an evolutionary basis for human sleep patterns. Of course, some amount of human sleep patterns is behavioral, e.g. the siesta.

Comment author: MatthewBaker 05 August 2011 04:19:18PM *  2 points [-]

no known human cultures that engage in polyphasic sleep (not counting biphasic sleep).

Look, our sun forces us into a monophasic pattern because of the day/night cycle that occurs everywhere around the earth but our body's don't naturally fall into it. We sleep at night because our brain is wired to sleep when its dark and that's an evolved mechanism but the behavioral pattern that polyphasic sleep requires isn't evolved into our system its just a natural response to the natural light patterns of our world . In parts of the world where light comes less often sleeping patterns are different than near the equator as evidenced by biphasic sleepers around the world who follow the Siesta pattern naturally.

It was dangerous, to try and guess at evolutionary psychology if you weren't a professional evolutionary psychologist; but when Harry had read about the Milgram experiment, the thought had occurred to him that situations like this had probably arisen many times in the ancestral environment, and that most potential ancestors who'd tried to disobey Authority were dead. Or that they had, at least, done less well for themselves than the obedient. People thought themselves good and moral, but when push came to shove, some switch flipped in their brain, and it was suddenly a lot harder to heroically defy Authority than they thought. Even if you could do it, it wouldn't be easy, it wouldn't be some effortless display of heroism. You would tremble, your voice would break, you would be afraid; would you be able to defy Authority even then?

Harry blinked, then; because his brain had just made the connection between Milgram's experiment and what Hermione had done on her first day of Defense class, she'd refused to shoot a fellow student, even when Authority had told her that she must, she had trembled and been afraid but she had still refused. Harry had seen that happen right in front of his own eyes and he still hadn't made the connection until now...

All i'm saying is that people attribute evolutionary reasons to things that have many separate causes and are unproven because they think they understand it. That's what both these quotes illustrate as far as i know :)

Comment author: Jordan 05 August 2011 08:05:37PM *  1 point [-]

All i'm saying is that people attribute evolutionary reasons to things that have many separate causes and are unproven because they think they understand it.

I agree, however, reverse stupidity is not intelligence. You say

the behavioral pattern that polyphasic sleep requires isn't evolved into our system its just a natural response to the natural light patterns of our world

but this seems like an unsubstantiated claim, just as much as people claiming sleep must be an evolved behavior. I agree that sleep is at least partially behavioral, but it's unclear to me that there isn't an evolved component. See this blurb from Wikipedia, which suggests that human sleep patterns are not completely dependent on external stimuli.

Comment author: MatthewBaker 05 August 2011 08:17:24PM *  0 points [-]

Your right, I was being too rhetorical when i said that. The final point of my piece was simply a way of explaining the quote, i can agree that

human sleep patterns are not completely dependent on external stimuli. and hopefully we will research them more.

Comment author: Jordan 05 August 2011 08:51:06PM 1 point [-]

Fully agree, especially because I suffer from chronic insomnia =D

Comment author: MatthewBaker 05 August 2011 08:55:07PM 0 points [-]

Have you tried vaporizing medical sleepy weed? That helped a lot with my insomnia :)

Comment author: Jordan 05 August 2011 10:33:18PM 1 point [-]

Definitely works better than any supplement or herbal remedy I've tried, but I usually don't feel rested the next day.

Comment author: Jack 10 September 2011 03:06:04AM 0 points [-]

Can anyone confirm that chimps and bonobos are diurnal as well?

Comment author: samineru 09 August 2011 07:17:33PM 1 point [-]

Discounting other theories unjustifiably, or overusing a particular theory past it's explanation is one sin. Not understanding a theory is another however. I think that many people who draw such false conclusions still base them on a pretty clear understanding of the core of evolutionary theory, i.e. mutation, gene exchange, selection, reproduction.

Comment author: MatthewBaker 09 August 2011 11:00:37PM 0 points [-]

I agree with your sentiment, but I find myself constantly reminded by this site that the majority of the world is stupider than we give them credit for.