= 27d567bc2d48d9f40e9ccc20ea370b15)
lessdazed comments on Rationality Lessons Learned from Irrational Adventures in Romance - Less Wrong
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
= 783df68a0f980790206b9ea87794c5b6)
Loading…= b715d02e85f7b3b4ae65ca3d3e450868)
Subscribe to RSS Feed
Powered by Reddit
= f037147d6e6c911a85753b9abdedda8d)
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
Comments (609)
Would you agree that Luke communicated that it's fairly safe to assume that all women X? That's a more diplomatic way of putting it, but to my way of thinking boils down to essentially the same message.
This seems to miss the bulk of my point. If one leaves out the 'generally', and just says "women want to have children more than men do", a man who is very interested in having children can think that women want children even more. He'll probably be incorrect, but he can think that, without it being a source of immediate stress or drama. But a woman who has no desire to have children is in a different situation - there's no plausible way that the average degree of wanting-children in men is lower than that, so it's immediately obvious that she doesn't fit the speaker's definition of 'women', which can be quite stressful. The case where men aren't referred to at all is similar, except that the man seeing the message is likely to come to a conclusion that's a bit closer to correct.
(Also, does it change your perception of this conversation at all if I point out that 1) I'm in a particularly a-gendered phase of genderfluidity right now and don't identify as female at the moment, and 2) my most recent priming for having this kind of argument actually came from a male-focused gender-egalitarianism blog? These things do run both ways, even if the example at hand is female-focused.)
Edit: Downvote of parent comment: Not me.
It depends on the passage. For example, "Women want men to be better at making them laugh and feel good and get aroused and not be creeped out," applies to basically all women, and also applies to all men but the message from context is that it is generally more important to women than to men. So yes to "all women want X" and "women generally want X more than men want X" but no to "all women want X more than men want X".
One has to assume something from context and insert either "generally", "exclusively", "equally", or whatever, if it isn't explicit. My assumption that the intention was best captured by "generally" was a) the charitable reading b) the most likely reading.
The argument that a sentence could be interpreted as offensive seems like it unfairly ignores the principle of charity.
Is it a definition?
Not consciously.
I'm going to have to let my response to this stew for a bit before it's suitable to post, if I can get the inferential distances reasonable at all.
The short, probably-won't-work, only-posting-it-so-the-above-doesn't-sound-like-an-evasion version is that your assumption that people will automatically parse things like that assumes that such people are at stage 4 (possibly 5) or better of Perry's development theory (or equivalent), and that such an assumption is not safe to make, even here.
The principle of charity forces people to privilege interpretations they consider unlikely, even if they aren't the readings they glean automatically. If their first reading implies that the author is innately evil or incredibly stupid, that indicates reinterpretation is in order.
If your point is that it pattern matches for bad things, OK, Luke is communicating suboptimally in the context of many readers being systematically biased and unfair and other writers using similar words to mean mean things.
You seem to be assuming that people can make such reinterpretations in the way you're looking for. This is not always true. And, even in cases where it is, I suspect that the initial interpretation - the one that's considered most likely - is the one that counts in terms of affecting the person's psychological/emotional state.