Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 8

Unnamed

Update: Discussion has moved on to a new thread.

The hiatus is over with today's publication of chapter 73, and the previous thread is approaching the 500-comment threshold, so let's start a new Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread. This is the place to discuss Eliezer Yudkowsky's Harry Potter fanfic and anything related to it.

The first 5 discussion threads are on the main page under the harry_potter tag. Threads 6 and on (including this one) are in the discussion section using its separate tag system. Also: one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. The fanfiction.net author page is the central location for information about updates and links to HPMOR-related goodies, and AdeleneDawner has kept an archive of Author's Notes.

As a reminder, it's often useful to start your comment by indicating which chapter you are commenting on.

Spoiler Warning: this thread is full of spoilers. With few exceptions, spoilers for MOR and canon are fair game to post, without warning or rot13. More specifically:

You do not need to rot13 anything about HP:MoR or the original Harry Potter series unless you are posting insider information from Eliezer Yudkowsky which is not supposed to be publicly available (which includes public statements by Eliezer that have been retracted).

If there is evidence for X in MOR and/or canon then it's fine to post about X without rot13, even if you also have heard privately from Eliezer that X is true. But you should not post that "Eliezer said X is true" unless you use rot13.

Update: Discussion has moved on to a new thread.

You do not need to rot13 anything about HP:MoR or the original Harry Potter series unless you are posting insider information from Eliezer Yudkowsky which is not supposed to be publicly available (which includes public statements by Eliezer that have been retracted).

If there is evidence for X in MOR and/or canon then it's fine to post about X without rot13, even if you also have heard privately from Eliezer that X is true. But you should not post that "Eliezer said X is true" unless you use rot13.

Definitions from wikipedia and http://www.stopbullying.gov, with emphasis added:

Bullying is an act of repeated aggressive behavior in order to intentionally hurt another person, physically or mentally. Bullying is characterized by an individual behaving in a certain way to gain power over another person.[14] Norwegian researcher Dan Olweus defines bullying as when a person is "exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons." He defines negative action as "when a person intentionally inflicts injury or discomfort upon another person, through physical contact, through words or in other ways".[15]

and

What is Bullying?

Bullying is a widespread and serious problem that can happen anywhere. It is not a phase children have to go through, it is not "just messing around", and it is not something to grow out of. Bullying can cause serious and lasting harm.

Although definitions of bullying vary, most agree that bullying involves:

Imbalance of Power: people who bully use their power to control or harm and the people being bullied may have a hard time defending themselves Intent to Cause Harm: actions done by accident are not bullying; the person bullying has a goal to cause harm Repetition: incidents of bullying happen to the same the person over and over by the same person or group Types of Bullying

Bullying can take many forms. Examples include:

Verbal: name-calling, teasing Social:spreading rumors, leaving people out on purpose, breaking up friendships Physical: hitting, punching, shoving Cyberbullying: using the Internet, mobile phones or other digital technologies to harm others An act of bullying may fit into more than one of these groups.

I think power struggles and subgroup formation are part of a normal social dynamic, and these things have negative consequences in a normal social dynamic. I think society has only noticed the most harmful such behavior and is overreacting to the worst behavior and underreacting to most bad behavior. The best social dynamic would still have people getting emotionally hurt as described above, though far less often and intensely.

That's an interesting angle, but I think the worst dominance-establishing behavior does enough damage that trying to snip that tail off the bell curve could be worth the trouble. Moving the center of the bell curve towards decency is also a worthy project, but perhaps more difficult.