Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 8

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Update: Discussion has moved on to a new thread.

The hiatus is over with today's publication of chapter 73, and the previous thread is approaching the 500-comment threshold, so let's start a new Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread. This is the place to discuss Eliezer Yudkowsky's Harry Potter fanfic and anything related to it.

The first 5 discussion threads are on the main page under the harry_potter tag. Threads 6 and on (including this one) are in the discussion section using its separate tag system. Also: one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. The fanfiction.net author page is the central location for information about updates and links to HPMOR-related goodies, and AdeleneDawner has kept an archive of Author's Notes.

As a reminder, it's often useful to start your comment by indicating which chapter you are commenting on.

Spoiler Warning: this thread is full of spoilers. With few exceptions, spoilers for MOR and canon are fair game to post, without warning or rot13. More specifically:

You do not need to rot13 anything about HP:MoR or the original Harry Potter series unless you are posting insider information from Eliezer Yudkowsky which is not supposed to be publicly available (which includes public statements by Eliezer that have been retracted).

If there is evidence for X in MOR and/or canon then it's fine to post about X without rot13, even if you also have heard privately from Eliezer that X is true. But you should not post that "Eliezer said X is true" unless you use rot13.

Update: Discussion has moved on to a new thread.

You do not need to rot13 anything about HP:MoR or the original Harry Potter series unless you are posting insider information from Eliezer Yudkowsky which is not supposed to be publicly available (which includes public statements by Eliezer that have been retracted).

If there is evidence for X in MOR and/or canon then it's fine to post about X without rot13, even if you also have heard privately from Eliezer that X is true. But you should not post that "Eliezer said X is true" unless you use rot13.

Well, the deal certainly seems risky. And his judgement is suspect -- we know he's already risked his life in a stupid way (at least once) to prove his 'intelligence' to Hermione.

But on that occasion, Hermione with her trust in authority pointed out the flaw. Later Harry correctly decided that her advice (or at least, the act of thinking about what she might say) would have saved him from making a big mistake with Azkaban. Since she now appears capable of listening, asking her could yield a net increase in expected value.

I don't even know if Harry made the right decision by protecting her and her friends. We'll see if Quirrell merely increased Harry's reputation or if, thanks to his action in ch. 75, the events of these chapters will ultimately make staying at Hogwarts unsafe. (I'm embarrassed to admit I missed this possibility until I saw an FF.net reviewer make a related point.)

I don't even know if Harry made the right decision by protecting her and her friends. We'll see if

Harry made the right decision by protecting her and her friends. Given what he knows and even given human (and Hogwarts) behavior it gives the best expected outcome.

Yes, Eliezer may construct negative consequences for Harry and try to teach a Deep Lesson but I basically wouldn't buy it[1]. You can't get much better bullying deterrent than seeing them visibly humiliated by first year girls. Add in some naked wall sticking and nobody would want to affiliate ... (read more)

7wedrifid15y

* Asking seems valuable any time there is time for information-gathering. Hermione is smart (and even more valuable than Harry's inner Founder personas.) * Asking for permission seems appropriate when it applies to interfering with Hermione specifically. * Asking Hermione for permission when other people's lives are at stake and Hermione happens to be in the room is not appropriate. * Asking Hermione for advice and preference when other people's lives are at stake and Hermione happens to be in the room is basically essential. * When the decision is already obviously determined without even needing Hermione's input warning her is obviously essential. * I don't believe Harry explicitly said he will do what she says whenever he asks her. It isn't quite asking for permission, even though that is the implication. Non-compliance would not be a technical breach but a real insult. * As it stands Harry saving Tracy and Hannah after Hermione said not to would be way, way more disrespectful than just doing it without asking. * With a simple disclaimer that represents even a tiny fraction of what Harry usually considers when making commitments Harry saving Tracy and Hannah despite having a negative response would be frustrating to Hermione but not a defection on an implied agreement and probably far less insulting than if he had just not asked at all. * Hermione knows Harry well enough that a mild when-it's-not-about-you disclaimer should be expected from Harry - even reassuring. People doing things that are totally out of character and sabotage their own goals just to please you is (usually) creepy. * I don't think this is in-character for Harry - or at least it isn't unless in-character Harry is totally whipped and this is a flaw he needs to overcome. * Eliezer saying "No, that's what Harry meant to do and he was Right to do it" would make me sad.

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Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 8

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Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 8

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