Eliezer_Yudkowsky comments on Incremental Progress and the Valley - Less Wrong

38 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 04 April 2009 04:42PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (105)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 05 April 2009 03:15:27PM 0 points [-]

Everyone here except you is using 1.

Comment author: PhilGoetz 05 April 2009 03:55:16PM *  4 points [-]

Do you see how using 2 can better accomplish 1?

<EDIT> We think we can best maximize our utility by trying to maximize our utility. Evolution is a better reasoner than us, and designed us to { maximize our utility by trying to maximize our happiness }. </EDIT>

Comment author: [deleted] 18 April 2009 03:24:16AM *  1 point [-]

That nature is (always) a better reasoner than man isn't a credible premise, particularly these days, when the analogous unconditional superiority of the market over central planning is no longer touted uncritically.

Do you assume individual rationality's justification is utility maximization, even if we settle for second-tier happiness in proxy? Programmed to try to maximize happiness, we act rationally when we succeed, making maximizing utility irrational or at least less rational. Utility has nothing more to recommend it when happiness is what we want.

Another way of saying this is that happiness is utility if utility is to play its role in decision theory, and what we've been calling utilities are biased versions of the real things.

Comment author: Annoyance 05 April 2009 05:51:19PM 2 points [-]

I would be more sympathetic towards your complaints about people speaking for you if you didn't frequently speak for others. All others.

Even if you were right, such behavior would be intolerable. And you frequently aren't. You aren't even rhetorically accurate, letting 'everyone' represent an overwhelming majority.

From now on I will downvote any comment or post of yours that puts words in my mouth, whether directly or through reference to us collectively, regardless of the remainder of the content.

Comment author: PhilGoetz 13 February 2015 05:05:49PM *  0 points [-]

When I said "which do people prefer", I meant "Which do you prefer after considering my explanation?" Most people are using 1 because they've never realized that the brain is using 2. I'd be more interested in hearing what you think people should use than what they do use, and why they should use it.