gwern comments on How Likely Is Cryonics To Work? - Less Wrong

18 Post author: jkaufman 25 September 2011 11:38PM

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Comment author: gwern 26 September 2011 02:22:10PM *  8 points [-]

That is true, but this style of analysis is predicated on a sequence of steps, each one of which must succeed, and hence the more steps you have, the lower the end result probability must be; if you were just correcting for overestimation by analysis, then there ought to be analyses or points where one realizes one has been too pessimistic and increases the probability.

But that can never happen with this kind of analysis: the small result is built into the conjunctions. If one realizes one was wrong in giving the probability of a particular factor, well, one can just 'fix' that by breaking it into some more substeps with <1 probability!

And if you look, there are illegitimate conjunctions in the OP. For example, 'cryonics company is out of capacity', besides being way too high (notice that '86% chance 'something goes wrong in getting you frozen' fails a basic outside view test - suspensions do go wrong fairly frequently, but not anywhere close to 86% of the time!), is a false conjunction; if you're paid up for Alcor, why can't CI handle your case or vice versa? Cryonics companies have taken patients off each others' hands before.

Comment author: jkaufman 26 September 2011 04:18:07PM 1 point [-]

there ought to be analyses or points where one realizes one has been too pessimistic and increases the probability

Some of my points seem unlikely enough now that I'll probably remove them. For example:

  • The life insurance company does not pay out
  • The cryonics company is temporarily out of capacity

One could also break a step S with X% probability into several steps that combine to less than X% probability if after looking at all the ways S could happen you decided that they combined to be less likely than you originally thought S was.

Comment author: jkaufman 26 September 2011 04:12:08PM 1 point [-]

suspensions do go wrong fairly frequently, but not anywhere close to 86% of the time!

If we have actual data on this, this should replace most of my first section. Can we get it? Though the people in a position to collect the data have a lot to lose by admitting poor numbers.

Also, some of my 86% for the first section includes things that we can't tell yet if they worked out all right:

  • Not all of what makes you you is encoded in the physical state of the brain
  • The current cryonics process is insufficient to preserve everything

And then there are things that are not currently a problem but could become one:

  • Some law is passed that prohibits cryonics
  • You die in a hospital that refuses access to you by the cryonics people

Actual data on the fraction of the time someone signed up for cryonics is actually suspended in what we think was the correct way would be really helpful, though.

Comment author: gwern 26 September 2011 04:17:38PM 5 points [-]

http://www.alcor.org/cases.html seems like a good starting point.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 26 September 2011 04:38:06PM 4 points [-]

Ugh. Some of that makes for very horrifying reading. One of the ones labeled worst case scenario makes me want to track down the people who did the autopsy and punch them.

Comment author: gwern 26 September 2011 04:56:52PM 5 points [-]

I did say 'fairly frequently'.... Nor does long involvement necessarily save one; Mike Darwin was rather angry at Ben Best over how he botched Curtis Henderson.