NancyLebovitz comments on Stanislav Petrov Day - Less Wrong

35 Post author: gwern 26 September 2011 02:49PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (164)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 28 September 2011 04:51:12PM 4 points [-]

No, my advice for the most practical and ethical way of dealing with oppressors is to not protest at all, not let them know that you oppose them and systematically assassinate all their leaders until they leave.

I used to think that, but I no longer find it plausible. The premise seems to be that leaders are detachable pieces.

In fact, assassination has a risk of making leaders more frightened and forceful. Additionally, a good many people may be loyal to a leader, so that assassination registers as an outside threat rather than a favor.

A sequence of assassinations is hard. Are you expecting enough of your group to survive and continue? Other groups to take up the project?

Comment author: wedrifid 28 September 2011 06:08:52PM 0 points [-]

A sequence of assassinations is hard. Are you expecting enough of your group to survive and continue? Other groups to take up the project?

Not having a significant power base is rather a limiting factor when it comes to just about any political campaign. I suggest that it takes less surviving members to arrange assassinations than it requires to perform a rebellion via conventional tactics.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 29 September 2011 08:19:05AM 3 points [-]

Has the sequence of assassinations tactic ever worked?

Comment author: wedrifid 29 September 2011 05:52:54PM *  3 points [-]

The Center for Economic Policy Research says yes.

Comment author: gwern 29 September 2011 06:19:39PM 2 points [-]
Comment author: NancyLebovitz 30 September 2011 09:42:28PM *  2 points [-]

Thanks for the links, but what it actually says is that while successful assassination can significantly increase the chance of a move from autocracy to democracy, the odds of a successful assassination are sufficiently low that the net effect of trying to change things with an assassination attempt is close to zero.

Assassination has some effect on wars, though.

Comment author: gwern 30 September 2011 09:58:20PM 2 points [-]

the odds of a successful assassination are sufficiently low that the net effect of trying to change things with an assassination attempt is close to zero.

If I may say so, those odds seem a lot better than the usual options like 'write letters to the newspaper' or 'start a political party'.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 30 September 2011 10:08:15PM 1 point [-]

The idea of someone trying to decide between writing a letter to their newspaper, starting a political party, and attempting an assassination is really entertaining me right now. I suspect I need sleep.

Comment author: wedrifid 30 September 2011 10:11:43PM 3 points [-]

It's a good thing I'm not politically active. Those first two options sound horrible. ;)

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 30 September 2011 11:16:39PM 1 point [-]

On the other hand, the risks and costs of the letter are much lower than an assassination. The monetary costs of starting a political party are probably comparable or higher, but the personal risks are probably lower unless you're in a country where ending autocracy is a really good idea.

Is working within an existing party just too disgusting to think of?

Risking your life to get less war probably makes sense on utilitarian grounds unless the war is likely to get rid of a very bad government.

Comment author: gwern 30 September 2011 11:36:23PM 0 points [-]

Is working within an existing party just too disgusting to think of?

No, my point was the recorded odds of success for assassins is much much better than conventional politics, by like several percent. How many hundreds of thousands of eager young people have enlisted in the Republican Party and associated conventional routes over the past 50 years, dedicating their lives and aspiring to change things?

How many changed things as much as, say, Sirhan Sirhan or Lee Harvey Oswald?

Comment author: Vaniver 01 October 2011 12:43:01AM 3 points [-]

How many changed things as much as, say, Sirhan Sirhan or Lee Harvey Oswald?

Er, the US still supports Israel, and the US still opposes communism. Again, there's a difference between changing things and fulfilling your aspirations.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 01 October 2011 02:22:19AM 2 points [-]

It seems odd to compare cherry-picked assassins to run-of-the-mill politicians. Surely the proper comparison to the hordes of eager young party members is the hordes of eager young killers? (Admittedly, someone who picks up a gun and starts shooting with the intention of changing things but is ineffectual may not earn the title "assassin" in popular consciousness, but it's not clear to me that that matters.)