Normal_Anomaly comments on Not By Empathy Alone - Less Wrong

19 Post author: gwern 05 October 2011 12:36AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (108)

You are viewing a single comment's thread.

Comment author: Normal_Anomaly 06 October 2011 12:30:51PM 9 points [-]

Fifth, there are victimless transgressions, such as necrophilia, consensual sibling incest, destruction of (unpopulated) places in the environment, or desecration of a grave of someone who has no surviving relative. Empathy makes no sense in these cases.

One person's modus ponens is another's modus tollens. The fact that there is no harm involved in "victimless crimes" leads myself and plenty of other people to label (at least the first two of) those "crimes" as acceptable.

Comment author: pedanterrific 07 October 2011 06:34:32PM *  0 points [-]

I'm curious what distinction you're drawing that makes the first acceptable but not the fourth.

Edit: Upon rereading, this seems more confrontational than was intended. To clarify, I agree there's nothing wrong with the second, hold reservations about the third only insofar as it's not clear to me that there really is no harm involved, and have simply never thought much about the first or fourth.

Comment author: Normal_Anomaly 08 October 2011 02:23:48AM 0 points [-]

I believe there is harm done by the third, because I value the existence of natural beauty even when I can't see it, and there are other problems with destroying unpopulated places as well. I have only a minor problem with the fourth. If it is known that the graves of people with no surviving relatives are often desecrated, this may make currently-alive people sad about their or their loved ones' graves being desecrated later. If nobody knows about the desecration, it's probably okay (excepting TDT-style concerns about people predicting future desecration from others' moral opinions).

Comment author: pedanterrific 08 October 2011 02:38:02AM 1 point [-]

I suppose it depends on what precisely is meant by "destruction" - there's been mention downthread of nuking the moon, which... I could see the argument that it would add value without harming anything worthwhile.

And I get how desecrating graves could make people unhappy about the prospects of their own remains. I was asking because I don't quite see how necrophilia could be okay while corpse-desecration is not - one seems to require the other.

Comment author: Normal_Anomaly 08 October 2011 03:21:45PM 1 point [-]

Oh, I see now. I was compartmentalizing pretty heavily there, wasn't I? I think I know why: the hypothetical situation I was imagining for necrophilia was on a desert island, (probably borrowed from the default one for cannibalism). The hypothetical for grave-desecration was spray-painting a gravestone in a local cemetery. People are less likely to find out in the former, so I never took those considerations into account.

Yes, in situations where grave-desecrating in general is not okay, necrophilia isn't either. I still think both are mostly okay if nobody finds out, and my saying this shouldn't make anyone sad as I have no desire to do either.