= 27d567bc2d48d9f40e9ccc20ea370b15)
orthonormal comments on Better Disagreement - Less Wrong
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
= 783df68a0f980790206b9ea87794c5b6)
Loading…= b715d02e85f7b3b4ae65ca3d3e450868)
Subscribe to RSS Feed
Powered by Reddit
= f037147d6e6c911a85753b9abdedda8d)
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
Comments (84)
DH7 should be kept internal, at least at first. Being misinterpreted as trying to construct a straw man when you've been trying to do the opposite can derail a conversation. To actually believe that you've made a steel man, not a straw man, the person you're arguing with would have to admit that you've created a stronger argument for their own position than they could.
It's probably best to practice up to DH7 internally, and only up to DH6 vocally.
If we imagine arguments as soldiers, as they tend to be, the problem becomes even clearer:
(A and B are about to fight.)
A. Ah! My worthy opponent! I shall send my greatest soldier to crush you... GOLIATH! ATTACK!
B. His sword's a little wimpy. Let me give him a bazooka.
If I were A, I wouldn't trust that bazooka on B's word alone, I'd be annoyed at the slight against my blacksmiths, and, even if it turned out to be a totally legitimate bazooka, I would, at the very least, consider B a tactless grandstander.
(Though if the bazooka did work, I'd use it, obviously. I just wouldn't like using it.)
DH7 does happen between mathematicians now and then. Person A has an idea of a proof for X. Person B could show a problem with Person A's proof (DH6) or an unrelated disproof of X (DH4? DH6?), but the best response is to show A a disproof of X that makes it clear why A's strategy is futile.
This is often done well enough that it doesn't even hurt feelings. But math is kind of a special case.
In particular, in math it is clear which arguments are more dubious. DH4 arguments are often perfectly acceptable, as a simple and clear counterexample refutes a complicated argument that could easily have a subtle flaw.
The ability to make simple, irrefutable arguments is tremendously beneficial to sane arguing, for instance because it enables you to use the The Emperor Has No Clothes defense and avoid studying the details of your opponent's argument.
In this case, I'd even drop my initial thoughts about rudeness. If you can prove that somebody's gone down mathematical blind alley, it's downright polite to do so, since there's no ambiguity about the relevance of the steel man here.